Clerics were more fun in 2nd edition. They were still healers which is (to me) their main distinction, but they did not fall behind as fast on the "I can hit that" scale because feats did not exist. In trying to balance the cleric in 3rd ed. someone somwhere thought they needed to have the same amount spells per day and the same top spell level as wizards. sounds good...but that means they have to lose ground in combat. But the 1st and 2nd edition description of cleric call the class a holy...
View full commentClerics were more fun in 2nd edition. They were still healers which is (to me) their main distinction, but they did not fall behind as fast on the "I can hit that" scale because feats did not exist. In trying to balance the cleric in 3rd ed. someone somwhere thought they needed to have the same amount spells per day and the same top spell level as wizards. sounds good...but that means they have to lose ground in combat. But the 1st and 2nd edition description of cleric call the class a holy WARRIOR. Give clerics less magic at the top 7th level resurrection should be just about the most powerful healing in existence anyway. Then give them back some martial power, and make them really shine vs. undead.
OR take the route 2nd edition eluded to but never really fleshed out. Gods have priest, and clerics and Druids are just two kinds of priests. then the cleric I described above would be like a priest of Kord etc. and a spell throwing buff-giver type would be a priest of some other god.
1. The Cleric Is a Healer: “This one should seem obvious, but it's worth making it clear that we assume that clerics can heal and that their abilities should reflect that. A player new to D&D who creates a cleric could focus on keeping the rest of the characters on their feet, and the mechanics would make that easy to understand and do.” - M.Mearls No, absolutely not. Especially not at the top of the list. A Cleric has the ability to aid his allies, including the ability to Heal...
View full comment1. The Cleric Is a Healer:
“This one should seem obvious, but it's worth making it clear that we assume that clerics can heal and that their abilities should reflect that. A player new to D&D who creates a cleric could focus on keeping the rest of the characters on their feet, and the mechanics would make that easy to understand and do.” - M.Mearls
No, absolutely not. Especially not at the top of the list. A Cleric has the ability to aid his allies, including the ability to Heal them, but this is not his Role. That’s right, you’re trying to pigeon-hole the Cleric as a Heal-bot by giving them the Role of Healer (Remember how you said you weren’t going to force Role’s on Players?!). Put this at the bottom of the list, or take it out altogether since it’s part of #2. Stating this as a Goal for the class disgusts me, it takes the focus off Roleplaying a Divine Servant and shoves it squarely onto playing a heal-bot
2. The Cleric Is a Divine Spellcaster:
I can agree with this as M.Mearls writes it. It is important that the Cleric not outstrip the other core classes by being able to do what they do, only better (using the #4 and #5 points as examples).
3. Divine Magic Is Subtle and Indirect:
I have no problems with this as M.Mearls interprets it.
4. The Cleric Is an Armored Warrior:
I think this can be true and so should be an option for the Cleric, through backgrounds and themes. I think a Clerics choice of Divine should play a large part of what kind of Cleric is being played.
5. Clerics Reflect the Gods:
Yes, absolutely agree with M.Mearls here. I’d go further, and say that each Cleric’s individual abilities and skills are tied to their choice of Divine.
I'm sure you developers hear an awful lot from people who aren't happy with one thing or another, and less from the satisfied customers. I just want to let you know I'm pretty happy with the way things have been going. I must admit, when I first got the 4e MM, I was a little disappointed that there didn't seem to be enough types of monsters, instead getting multiple versions of fewer monsters. But that method is great for interesting play. I like the use of tokens in the Threats of Nentir...
View full commentI'm sure you developers hear an awful lot from people who aren't happy with one thing or another, and less from the satisfied customers. I just want to let you know I'm pretty happy with the way things have been going. I must admit, when I first got the 4e MM, I was a little disappointed that there didn't seem to be enough types of monsters, instead getting multiple versions of fewer monsters. But that method is great for interesting play. I like the use of tokens in the Threats of Nentir Vale book. Of course we all want to see more or our favorite monsters so I guess my take is simple: the more monsters the better. I would recommend making the first three Monster Manuals arranged by tier. Starting DnD at level 1, many games never get to level 20. That's just reality, most gameplay occurs at lower levels, and I know DMs who simply don't like playing at epic tier. so give us three books to start, one at each tier. They don't have to all be huge, but the heroic tier book should be thickest. I used to love the Monstrous Manual annuals, or whatever they were called, from 2e. A nice simple softcover book that collects the best new monsters from DDI. A lot of the monsters introduced in Dungeon adventures never get what I would consider a satisfactory write-up and illustration. Some way to provide an illustration for every single monster released would be fantastic. I used to take a certain area of my campaign world and browse the books and magazines for images of monsters I thought fit well in that environment. Now, with the monsters scattered among so many different books or in online publications without illustrations, and with such an emphasis on undead, demons, elemental creatures, etc, it's gotten a lot harder to do that. I would also like more natural creatures I can populate wilderness areas with. I do think that it would be great to have a separate product for monster stat-blocks of playable races spanning a wide variety of levels for each race.
I would never use a monster like the rust monster, whose only purpose is to screw the players. If you give out treasure judiciously, and make sure that there's a good reason why the players will need what you give out, it isn't necessary to resort to dirty tricks to take back what you've given them. What would be useful would be a standard procedure for determining D&D stats for creatures taken from literature. Perhaps you'd like to use a leem from the Dray Prescot series, a ghastozar...
View full commentI would never use a monster like the rust monster, whose only purpose is to screw the players. If you give out treasure judiciously, and make sure that there's a good reason why the players will need what you give out, it isn't necessary to resort to dirty tricks to take back what you've given them.
What would be useful would be a standard procedure for determining D&D stats for creatures taken from literature. Perhaps you'd like to use a leem from the Dray Prescot series, a ghastozar from the Jandar of Callisto stories, or a thoat from Barsoom in your campaign. There should be a straightforward way of determining appropriate D&D stats based on the descriptions in the stories.
It would be a mistake to bind yourself too tightly to the past and limit your options. Surely, creating a fantasy roleplaying game that is as much fun as possible is more important than maintaining the "feel" of D&D. Moreover, the new version will have to offer some compelling improvements if people are to be convinced to give up their favorite existing editions and spend the money to buy the new books. From the player's standpoint, it's not clear that fragmentation is bad. As long...
View full commentIt would be a mistake to bind yourself too tightly to the past and limit your options. Surely, creating a fantasy roleplaying game that is as much fun as possible is more important than maintaining the "feel" of D&D. Moreover, the new version will have to offer some compelling improvements if people are to be convinced to give up their favorite existing editions and spend the money to buy the new books.
From the player's standpoint, it's not clear that fragmentation is bad. As long as it doesn't lead to flame wars or other hostility, why shouldn't people play whatever versions they like?
I now am familiar with how the modules work, will it actually work for each individual character can be run with different modules or does it just mean different DMs in Next will be able to run the game with different modules. Different means to the same end. I read a post lately where one person stated that a player with a first edition character wouldnt have the patience for a 4th edition character to make all their rolls. I dont know. I checked out Paizo's advanced rules on their OGC site....
View full commentI now am familiar with how the modules work, will it actually work for each individual character can be run with different modules or does it just mean different DMs in Next will be able to run the game with different modules. Different means to the same end. I read a post lately where one person stated that a player with a first edition character wouldnt have the patience for a 4th edition character to make all their rolls. I dont know. I checked out Paizo's advanced rules on their OGC site. Holy crap its awesome. I guess modules may work after all.
Larry Elmore, and it's not even close. I still love those Dragonlance covers. When making one of my first 4E characters, I did a Google image search of his library to find my PC's picture.
In most cases, when the art of a single artist was used to define the game (for major releases anyway), I wasn't happy with the result. In fact two of my least favorite artists were the most featured. Elmore (not one of the two) has some great stuff, and his work for Dragonlance really tied the line together. And while it's far above some of the other staff artists, it also had a distinctive style that doesn't always appeal to me either. They tend to be very bright, very 'posed', and I'm...
View full commentIn most cases, when the art of a single artist was used to define the game (for major releases anyway), I wasn't happy with the result. In fact two of my least favorite artists were the most featured.
Elmore (not one of the two) has some great stuff, and his work for Dragonlance really tied the line together. And while it's far above some of the other staff artists, it also had a distinctive style that doesn't always appeal to me either. They tend to be very bright, very 'posed', and I'm not a fan of his dragons. Although the cover of Dragon #140 was a keeper.
I really like Denis Beauvais' dragons (although he tended to get 'cartoony' the proportions and anatomy looked 'right' to me). Daniel R. Horne's cover for Dragon #126 is a classic.
Parkinson's up there too ('Northwatch Dragon?).
I was also a big fan of making the books look like...books. The leatherette covers (expensive as I understand), was a great approach, looking much less like a game, and the bookshelves looked more like a library.
yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, HOWEVER, not every opinion belongs in every discussion. If the premise of the discussion is not involved with your opinion, then all you do is waste your time, and the time of the readers in regards to the forum by expressing said opinion here. Repetitive behavior in such a manner is really the definition of insanity, afterall. Not only that, but threadjacking to unrelated opinions is generally a mark of rudeness and lower than average intelligence....
View full commentyes, everyone is entitled to their opinion, HOWEVER, not every opinion belongs in every discussion. If the premise of the discussion is not involved with your opinion, then all you do is waste your time, and the time of the readers in regards to the forum by expressing said opinion here. Repetitive behavior in such a manner is really the definition of insanity, afterall. Not only that, but threadjacking to unrelated opinions is generally a mark of rudeness and lower than average intelligence. Not saying you have lower than average, just that you give the appearance by threadjacking in such a way...Now, I do apologize for perpetuating this non-related subthread, and will not further play into it, but felt something did need to be addressed, out of respect, since you did see fit to post here.
Not to be overly contradictory, but I actually find Healing Surges and Action Points to be two of the big triumphs of 4e. Healing surges in combat must be triggered by powers, and represent the body's ability to sustain healing. Their internal reserve. Anyone can't just use them, they get 1 2nd Wind, and after that, must rely on powers or magic items, just like other editions. The real advantage of Healing Surges came in the between encounters area, when you could heal up without expending...
View full commentNot to be overly contradictory, but I actually find Healing Surges and Action Points to be two of the big triumphs of 4e. Healing surges in combat must be triggered by powers, and represent the body's ability to sustain healing. Their internal reserve. Anyone can't just use them, they get 1 2nd Wind, and after that, must rely on powers or magic items, just like other editions. The real advantage of Healing Surges came in the between encounters area, when you could heal up without expending everything you had. As for Action Points, you only get one a day, unless you reach a milestone, and its nice to be able to do a 4 move combo instead of only a 3 move combo (assuming you have a minor, a move, and a standard, plus 1 of any) periodically, and its also nice at higher levels, to have alternate effects based on using your Action Points.
I have just ordered the novels by R.A. Salvatore. I have loved what he has did with the Drow. Since the dark Elf trilogy I have played nothing else. I have even created a house that escaped from the under dark and worshipped Ellistrae. The wizards of the coast sanctioned the destruction of her based on the loses penmanship of some author. I am interested in bringing my Drow into this campaign setting only if Ellistrae is allowed. She is a god. You just can't kill her. What are the...
View full commentI have just ordered the novels by R.A. Salvatore. I have loved what he has did with the Drow. Since the dark Elf trilogy I have played nothing else. I have even created a house that escaped from the under dark and worshipped Ellistrae. The wizards of the coast sanctioned the destruction of her based on the loses penmanship of some author. I am interested in bringing my Drow into this campaign setting only if Ellistrae is allowed. She is a god. You just can't kill her. What are the rest of us that have charters that follow her suppose to do?
I have just ordered the novels by R.A. Salvatore. I have loved what he has did with the Drow. Since the dark Elf trilogy I have played nothing else. I have even created a house that escaped from the under dark and worshipped Ellistrae. The wizards of the coast sanctioned the destruction of her based on the loses penmanship of some author. I am interested in bringing my Drow into this campaign setting only if Ellistrae is allowed. She is a god. You just can't kill her. What are the...
View full commentI have just ordered the novels by R.A. Salvatore. I have loved what he has did with the Drow. Since the dark Elf trilogy I have played nothing else. I have even created a house that escaped from the under dark and worshipped Ellistrae. The wizards of the coast sanctioned the destruction of her based on the loses penmanship of some author. I am interested in bringing my Drow into this campaign setting only if Ellistrae is allowed. She is a god. You just can't kill her. What are the rest of us that have charters that follow her suppose to do?
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“This one should seem obvious, but it's worth making it clear that we assume that clerics can heal and that their abilities should reflect that. A player new to D&D who creates a cleric could focus on keeping the rest of the characters on their feet, and the mechanics would make that easy to understand and do.” - M.Mearls
No, absolutely not. Especially not at the top of the list. A Cleric has the ability to aid his allies, including the ability to Heal...
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