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13 months ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 7:57AM #1
von_Stahl
Date Joined: Jan 14, 2012
Posts: 44
Last week we tried some Convoy Scenarios from the WAS Rulebook.
It seems that it is nearly impossible for the defender to win.
We tried Axis (Germany/Italy) vs. Royal Navy and U.S. vs. Japan in different configurations.

What is your favourite tactics to defend your convoy?
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13 months ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 9:13AM #2
enabrantain
Date Joined: Nov 9, 2007
Posts: 1,412
A little further donw in this forum I posted an adjustable convoy scenario that I've been bugging people to try out. Looks complicated until you figure out the basic principles. Might work a little better for you, if you do try it out I'd love to get some feedback.
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13 months ago  ::  May 26, 2012 - 3:27PM #3
von_Stahl
Date Joined: Jan 14, 2012
Posts: 44
Yes, I read it some weeks ago but have yet to try. Wanted to start with the basics.

Will give you feedback as soon as I made my own experiences.
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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 6:58AM #4
DarthVader_Unleashed
Date Joined: Oct 24, 2008
Posts: 86
Hold back the convoy ships and send in your main forces and watch the outnumbered attackers (since convoy games are generally 160 vs 200) get pummelled.
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13 months ago  ::  May 27, 2012 - 9:25AM #5
von_Stahl
Date Joined: Jan 14, 2012
Posts: 44

May 27, 2012 -- 6:58AM, DarthVader_Unleashed wrote:

Hold back the convoy ships and send in your main forces and watch the outnumbered attackers (since convoy games are generally 160 vs 200) get pummelled.




Yeah, my idea exactly even with the time limit of 15 Rds.
1. Problem is: If the attacker is air heavy my convoy is without AA support
2. (Main) Problem is: The attacker can concentrate for one tactic but the defender has to be prepaired for every type of attacker (Air Attack, Subs, Surface Raiders).

For example: My US opponent knew he was up against the IJN. He decided to use a mixed force of cruisers (Montpellier, Atlanta), destroyers (with Sub Hunter) and Fighter Cover.
I went in with Fuso and Kirishima (80 Pts. exactly) and pounded him to pieces, his Fighters being useless.

In another scenario I went in with 4 subs, 3 Fighters and two Kamikazes. After his destroyer were sunk by my Kamikazes and Fighters (2 Main Gun sinks a crippled destroyer quite easily) all his Fighters and Cruisers could not attack my subs.

So, which combination of defenders is able to stop a specialized attacker? 

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13 months ago  ::  May 31, 2012 - 1:00PM #6
Royal_Canadian
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2008
Posts: 61
I believe that there is an inherent problem with trying to simulate any convoy scenario with the scale of War at Sea.  If you study the Atlantic convoy formations from WWII, you will observe some arrangements which simply are not possible on the maps we use.  The convoys were large, often with well over 30 or 40 ships.  They were surrounded by destroyers and other escorts.  Late in the war, escort carriers, like the Bogue, always accompanied the convoy to target U-boats, since that was the principal threat. 

I just do not see how WAS can possibly simulate this without expanding the playing surface and creating some type of search and find component.  If the convoy can slip past raiders, then they could win.
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13 months ago  ::  May 31, 2012 - 1:57PM #7
AH_Ober
Date Joined: Jan 1, 2009
Posts: 1,792
Ships with Guard the convoy can be helpful if you want to drive through his blockade. As mentioned you can also place ships with good AA attacks if you are worried about aircraft attacks. I prefer to hold back the convoy until his surface fleet is reduced by my surface fleet then drive them off the map. Be prepared for infiltrator subs with ASW and drive your convoy away from them because there are easily outrun leaving them useless and a waste of points. Ive won a fair number of convoy games as the defender so its doable.

Bear in mind there is no perfect navy in this game, it all comes down to builds and luck. At our LGS there were a phase where a couple of guys built the "Condors over Dakota" weekly until we started building specific navies to counter them. They quickly dropped the build when they saw we were ready for them and they weren't winning all the time.
The potentcy of the 88 was that it was present, in reasonable numbers, when it was needed, They had them. We did not. And anything an enemy has which makes life unpleasant for you tends to earn a larger-than-life reputation.
Ian Hogg


A&A Underground
AAM Database
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13 months ago  ::  May 31, 2012 - 11:31PM #8
AH_Richter_von_Manthofen
Date Joined: Sep 29, 2005
Posts: 1,665
IMHO the game mechanics don't really allow for "convoy games"

But I found out that in larger campaign games convoys are a nice "battle" initiator.

Scenario: Canada has to ship an army to the UK (I use AA Europe/Pacific maps for the strategig picture).

Step one - determine which ships are available (e.g. 3 Transports which can accomodate 60 points of AAM units each). Then load the ships.
Assemble convoy escorts (Canada has a few Sackvilles, UK brings a few J-class and Tribals + the Ark Royal with 3 Torpedo Bombers for ASW - as its an Atlantic convoy no German Air is expected)

Germany planning the "unspeakable sea mammal" decides that more troops in England would not be nice, so decides to counter in force and deploys not ony the 4 subs it currently operates in the Atlantic,  but also uses Scharnhorst and Gneisenau + 3 Z18+Z20 DDs. - Result Convoy is butchered and remains retreat to Canada, but UK brings the Homefleet next turn to block the return trip for Scharnhorst and Gneisenau.

If Germany expected to go east this turn it would have used only the subs...

Thus the strategic picture determines what to deploy (ships have to be built in previous game turn, and of course they must be deployed where the action is - as in the above example germany can't bring planes)

Other games played: UK ships reinforcement to Egypt. Instead of going around Africa it uses the short way through the med. Of course here the REgia Marina waits and Germany has Bombers in Libya and Southern Italy. Making this a hazardous task for UK (brings in addition to the transports and DDs some Euryalus AA Cruisrs and 3 BBs + Illustrious and Victorious with Martletts.

Fight turned ugly 2 UK BB ships (one was sunk) made it to Alexandria, but transports returned to Gibraltar
Regia Marina lost many DD´s and CA/CLs, but saved its BBs for another day) - Of course damage must be repaired, so most ships were out of the game for some time...
...,... and Rock'n Roll - but Minis are fun too...
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13 months ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 4:09AM #9
DarthVader_Unleashed
Date Joined: Oct 24, 2008
Posts: 86
I find the convoy games to be the most boring and least strategic.  I use convoy ships as my objective markers that is a convoyish as I like to play lol.
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13 months ago  ::  Jun 01, 2012 - 3:56PM #10
Antshrike
Date Joined: Jul 22, 2008
Posts: 103
We've had good luck with convoy scenarios using smaller groups of mixed transports as the core.  Most we scenarios we have played have been Italian vs. Brits.  We used actual convoy encounters in the Mediterranean as our guide, switching units that are not yet available in WAS (although it is getting fairly close at least in terms of class).   We also developed a simple cloth board that covered an entire table giving us more room.  To make even more room, we found we could shift the entire game, piece by piece several sectors in the opposite direction from where the action was developing.  

Far from boring, we have had some of our most interesting games built around convoys.   They generally are not balanced (this is what happens when you use real historical set-ups) and they are almost always a challenge for the weaker player.  
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