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2 years ago ::
Oct 28, 2011 - 11:58AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Mar 10, 2003
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Here is the revised Class Limitations list (researched and provided to us by Weedsrock2; thanks for tackling this). I've included Mike's notes so everyone can see his reasoning on some of these choices. Changes are underlined. Please review and comment here, and we'll incorporate the fine-tuned list into the existing class limits document. Steve
- HMS Hawkins - Five Hawkins class CA's were built. Raleigh sank in 1922. Cavendish/Vindictive became a training ship in the mid-30's and then a repair ship during the war with one funnel removed and most of it's armament removed. I think we are down to three. Now for the questionable one - Effingham. She was rebuilt with a single trunked vertical stack (so very different looking) and three triple 6 inch gun turrets. So she was very different looking and armed from the Hawkins and Frobisher which still had their two raked stacks and original 7.5 inch guns in single shields. So you guys need to call it. (Rich Baker called it -- two.)
- ORP Dragon. I put one since you guys seem to go by country. There were 8 in the class.
- Algonquin and Uganda. Again, I put 2 for Algonquin since your precedent is 3 for the Australian DD's. I added Uganda as a 'missed' one from the earlier sets.
- I did not increase the Bismarck or Yamato class. I assume the class limit is still 2 with a 'choice' among the three.
- Changed Archangelisk to Arkangelisk to agree with the card.
Germany
Admiral Hipper, Blücher, Prinz Eugen (3)
Admiral Graf Spee, Admiral Scheer (3)
Atlantis (2)
Bismarck, Tirpitz (2)
Friedrich der Grosse (1)
Graf Zeppelin (1)
Karlsruhe, Köln, Konigsberg (3)
Moltke (1)
Nürnberg (1)
Scharnhorst, Gneisenau (2)
Schleswig-Holstein (2)
ZG3 (1)
Italy
Aquila (1)
Bolzano (1)
Andrea Doria, Caio Duilio (2)
Duca D'Aosta, Eugenio di Savoia (2)
Giovanni delle Bande Nere (4)
Giulio Cesare (2)
Guiseppe Garibaldi (2)
Littorio, Roma, Vittorio Veneto (3)
Pegaso (4)
San Giorgio (1)
Scipione Africano (3)
Trento (2)
Zara, Gorizia (4)
Japan
Agano, Yahagi (4)
Akagi (1)
Aoba (2)
Atago (4)
Chitose (2)
Fuso, Yamashiro (2)
Ise (2)
Jintsu, Naka (3)
Junyo (2)
Kaga (1)
Kongo, Haruna, Kirishima (4)
Nachi, Haguro, Myoko (4)
Nagato (2)
Oi (2)
Ryujo (1)
Shoho (2)
Shokaku, Zuikaku (2)
Soryu (1)
Mogami, Suzuya (4)
Taiho (1)
Tone, Chikuma (2)
Yamato, Musashi (2)
Finland
Väinämöinen (2)
Australia
Arunta (3)
Australia, Canberra (2)
Sydney (3)
Canada
Algonquin (2)
Uganda (1)
France
Algerie (1)
Bearn (1)
Dunkerque, Strasbourg (2)
Lamotte-Piquet (3)
Provence (3)
Richelieu, Jean Bart (2)
Suffren (4)
Greece
Giorgios Averoff (1)
Proteus (4)
Vasilissa Olga (2)
Netherlands
De Ruyter (1)
Hr. Ms. Van Galen (2)
Witte de With (4)
Hr. Ms. Zvaardvisch (2)
Poland
Blyskawica (2)
Dragon (1)
Orzel (2)
Soviet Union
Arkhangelsk (1)
Kirov (2)
Krasnyi Krym (2)
Sovyetskiy Soyuz (1)
Oktyabrskaya Revolutsia (3)
Sweden
Gotland (1)
Gustav V (2)
United Kingdom
Ark Royal (1)
Belfast (2)
Eagle (1)
Exeter (2)
Glorious (2)
Hawkins (2)
Hood (1)
Illustrious, Victorious (4)
Nelson, Rodney (2)
Repulse (2)
Sheffield (5)
United States
Alaska (2)
Arizona (2)
Iowa, Missouri, New Jersey (4)
Lexington, Saratoga (2)
Massachusetts (4)
Montana (1)
Nevada (2)
North Carolina, Washington (2)
Salt Lake City (2)
Tennessee, California (2)
Yorktown, Enterprise, Hornet (3)
Wasp (1)
If your only tool is a warhammer, every problem looks like a gnoll.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 28, 2011 - 1:16PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2007
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Thanks Steve. I think. 
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2 years ago ::
Oct 28, 2011 - 3:19PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2007
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Steve, I messed up on Sheffield. It should not be on the list with a class of 5 (or greater).
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2 years ago ::
Oct 30, 2011 - 10:29PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Jul 22, 2008
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Steve, I messed up on Sheffield. It should not be on the list with a class of 5 (or greater).
Out of curiosity, what is the error? It looks like at least the four other ships of the same group are good to go. If you consider the later three ships of the program (Gloucester, Manchester, and Liverpool), it could be 8.
After reading this comment I decided to check out the accounts and looked at photos and diagrams in Alan Raven and John Roberts' British Cruisers of World War 2. The differences are pretty subtle between the first five ships of the group and the later three. Conway notes that the armor is a bit improved in the latter set but I am not sure we would notice that at WAS scale. Details! Details! I've always wanted to see the Manchester released (in part because I periodically drive by the Birmingham and Manchester offramps in Encinitas - both ships were stationed together on patrol in the pursuit of the Bismarck) and this would be pretty close.
A limit of 2 Dragons for Poland is reasonable for tournement games but that shouldn't make anyone hesitate to use them as proxies for their British counterparts for scenario based matches. We may see a solid Brit reprint in a future release or we may not (and both ships were under the British flag for the early years of the war).
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2 years ago ::
Oct 31, 2011 - 9:05AM
#5
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2007
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Steve, I messed up on Sheffield. It should not be on the list with a class of 5 (or greater).
Out of curiosity, what is the error?
The error is ships with a class of greater than 4 do not need to be listed. By the rulebook there is no restriction on classes greater than 4.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 31, 2011 - 9:08AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2007
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Steve,
It looks like Sheffield is the only error in the document. Comments on Forumini were 'explainable' other than Sheffield.
weeds
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2 years ago ::
Oct 31, 2011 - 12:29PM
#7
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Steve,
It looks like Sheffield is the only error in the document. Comments on Forumini were 'explainable' other than Sheffield.
weeds
I thought Gustav V was a three unit class, maybe one sank before the war? I'll admit the Swedish navy is not a strong area of knowledge for me
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2 years ago ::
Oct 31, 2011 - 1:37PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 26, 2007
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Steve, two possible corrections...
There were three Sverige-class coastal defense ships for the Swedish navy: HMS Gustav V, HMS Sverige, and HMS Drottning Victoria.
Although only one Danae-class cruiser served in the Polish navy at any one time, it could be argued that the class limit for ORP Dragon is two. She was replaced by her sister ship HMS Danae after she was sunk. The Danae was renamed ORP Conrad.
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2 years ago ::
Oct 31, 2011 - 5:40PM
#9
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Date Joined:
Apr 26, 2007
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Steve, two possible corrections...
There were three Sverige-class coastal defense ships for the Swedish navy: HMS Gustav V, HMS Sverige, and HMS Drottning Victoria.
Although only one Danae-class cruiser served in the Polish navy at any one time, it could be argued that the class limit for ORP Dragon is two. She was replaced by her sister ship HMS Danae after she was sunk. The Danae was renamed ORP Conrad.
You are right about he Sverige-class. My mistake.
I listed Dragon as one for the reason you gave that there was only one with a Polish crew at any one time. Much like HMAS Shropshire is not counted with HMAS Canberra and HMAS Australia.
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2 years ago ::
Nov 02, 2011 - 12:32AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Sep 29, 2005
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I would also add the Sho-Go Yamato to the Yamato/Musashi listing. A rules Lawyer like me might tell you as it is NOT listed it can be used in any number  It is somewhat interesting that all the Fantasies are listed to be one in a kind... - and NOT the planned numbers.
...,... and Rock'n Roll - but Minis are fun too...
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