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Switch to Forum Live View Act I, Part I - Homecoming
2 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2011 - 6:25PM #51
DLIMedia
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2010
Posts: 1,756
Laris reacts to the intrusion in his mind, turning towards Lakota.

"Don't do that to me again," he said seriously, then turns back to the other side of the room.

Lia looks at Lakota and smiles.

To Lakota alone Show
Lakota hears the Lady's voice inside her own mind, without her moving her lips. The telepathy is not Lakota's doing.

"Forgive my husband... He doesn't like it when I talk to him this way without asking first."

"I admire your dedication. Given the opportunity to prove your worth, I have no doubt you shall."

OOC Show
Despite the natural 1, you have neither a success nor a failure. Did I forget to mention that Lia's a psion?


She follows behind Laris as he begins to move towards the halfling. Dink straightens up, licks his palm and and smooths out his hair.

Just as Laris is about to address him, the wizard steps forward and clears his throat.

"Good day, Lord Larin and Lady Lia..." he raises his arms as he speaks. "I am Elric, grand wizard of the Eastern provice of Falaharr, and I am at your service."

He attempts to bow, and his hat flops off of his head and on to the ground. He hastily picks it up and places it on his head, slightly tilting to the left, only to drop his staff. He reaches down to get it and drops his hat again. This time he merely picks it up and stashes it in a pocket of his cloak.

"Falaharr? I know of the academy there... You're a student of Dyzmon?"

Mechanics Show
Elric's History: 2(1d20) +10 = 12


"Why... Yes!"

"He's been dead for twenty years."

"Oh... Well..." the wizard turns beet red as he tries to think of a response. "He wrote a lot of books. sir..."

"I see..."

Laris moves onward to Therin and Bothor, completely ignoring the halfling.

Brell steps up to Therin and looks at him closely.

"Have you been drinkin'?" he asks.

"No more than the average dwarf, sir..." Therin mumbles. You can hear Gorin snort from the back of the room.

Therin stands at attention. "Therin of the Ironshield Clan. My hammer is at your service, my lord."

Brell can't help but laugh. Laris sighs as he passes the dwarf and moves on to Bothor. He looks at him from head to toe for a few seconds, completely silent the whole time.

"What do you have to say for yourself?" he asks Bothor.
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2 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2011 - 6:41PM #52
swmabie
Date Joined: Dec 8, 2009
Posts: 8,220
Having seen the treatment that Therin got, Patrin decides he has to act fast, before Bothor gets the much the same.  Must protect The Weak!

He steps forward and clears his throat.  "That would be my fault, your majestic highnessness, sir."

Certain that every eye in the room is on him, he swallows and continues.  "I was very nervous last night; to be honest, it's my first time out in a strange city.  Not that your city is strange, per se; it seems perfectly normal.  But to me, I'm sure you understand, its not like there's a bunch of dragonborn strolling around here; just like you'd feel in my hometown, without any elves, Sire, sir, and ma'am of course."

He stretches his neck nervously.  "Anyway, Master Bothor, King, sire, he was very friendly and nice and helped keep me company.  Unfortunately for him, sire, sir, your majesty, my - what's the term? Oh, right - metabolism tends to run a bit high, and  mother always complained about me being a bit high strung, so I was up quite late, but am able to bounce back and be more than awake early on.  Unfortunately, because of me, I don't think Master Bothor, sir, got very much sleep, your high majesty, sir."

mechanics Show
Help improve the Forums: Learn some Logic!
A handy dandy list of fallacies: Which have you just committed? Show

• Ad Hominem — Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument.
Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack) — Insulting the person, not addressing the argument.
• Ad Hominem Tu Quoque — Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument.
Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition — Using emotion instead of Fact.
Bandwagon — Use of peer pressure.
• Begging the Question — Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to.
Biased Sample — Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole.
• Burden of Proof — Shifting it to the wrong side.
• Circumstantial Ad Hominem — Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument.
• Composition — Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts.
• Confusing Cause & Effect — Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction.
• Division — Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole.
• False Dilemma — Assuming that only two options exist.
• Gambler's Fallacy — Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances
• Genetic — Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim.
• Guilt by Association — Attacking others who agree with the claim.
• Hasty Generalization — Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size.
• Ignoring the Common Cause — Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things.
• Middle Ground — Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct.
• Misleading Vividness — Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence.
• Poisoning the Well — Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument.
• Post Hoc — Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first.
• Questionable Cause — Assuming that one thing causes another.
• Red Herring — Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion.
• Relativist Fallacy — Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker.
• Slippery Slope — Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another.
• Special Pleading — Claiming exemption without justification.
• Spotlight — Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole.
• Straw Man — Misrepresenting the opposing argument.
• Two Wrongs Make a Right — Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.

Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video Game Show

Jan 12, 2013 -- 1:49PM, Rogue_Elendae wrote:

Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play.  As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.

In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills.  You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end.  Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear.  Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.

Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created.  Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting.  Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point.  But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.

In WoW, you choose a class and you're done.  No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one.  There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class.  No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it.  You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do.  It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.

Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them.  Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is.  Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc.  All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point.  Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection.  Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.



Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be Inclusive Show

Mar 31, 2013 -- 8:40PM, Emerikol wrote:

I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game.   I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable.   DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games.  I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.

Having said that.  I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires.  It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective.   I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.

Do a lot of you feel this way?

Just for clarification...here are some examples...
1.  Alignment restrictions as an option.
2.  Alignment Mechanics
3.  Martial healing
4.  Races being included or not.

and so forth.  Thoughts?


Mar 31, 2013 -- 9:43PM, Authw8 wrote:

I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.

I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.

The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.

I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.

In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.


Why D&D will continue to fail economically. Show

Apr 22, 2013 -- 12:40AM, Mand12 wrote:

Mobile/tablet is not supported by WotC.  They're stuck in the past, with no coherent vision of how technology could benefit their product.

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2 years ago  ::  Jan 07, 2011 - 6:50PM #53
DLIMedia
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2010
Posts: 1,756
Laris looks briefly at the kobold, then back at Bothor.

"Is this true?" he asks him.
Darklight Interactive - "Omne ignotum pro magnifico"

"When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer..."

A Walk In the Dark blog

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2 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2011 - 4:44AM #54
Akavasha
Date Joined: Oct 31, 2007
Posts: 10,794

Lakota bows to Lord Laris’s back as he commands her to never intrude in his mind again. Some are like that. She has learned from the dwarves that it is very impolite to simply barge into a mind without asking permission first. There are times when she makes exceptions, but this is not one of the times.


The return voice inside her mind is not Lakota’s doing and she finds herself feeling pleased. It has been awhile since anyone has spoken to her in this manner and she finds it comforting and satisfying at the same time. *Thank you, my Lady.*


She watches as Lady Lia returns to her husband’s side. She reflects on their minds, for each mind gives off a somewhat different flavor or feel. Both are strong, stable minds, though the king’s has an edge to it that likely speaks to his strength of character. She wonders what Gorin’s mind would feel like.


Now this is an interesting turn of events. Lakota does not have the capability of looking surprised but that is exactly how she feels as the kobold man next to her speaks up, covering for Bothor. This interview is quite the interesting one and she avidly watches the scene play out before her. She has never interacted with kobolds before and wonders if this is natural behavior.

Do NOT meddle in the affairs of dragons; for you are crunchy and go good with ketchup

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2 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2011 - 7:50AM #55
LinYurenya
Date Joined: Sep 17, 2010
Posts: 3,938
The alcohol was just starting to relieve Bothor's headache when he noticed everybody acting all serious. "What is happening? Must be something important. I bet there's some sort of benefit to getting picked. Even the drunken Dwarf seems to want this a lot. Maybe it's free ale...Alright, Bothor, put on your best performance."
He manages a weak smile as the Kobold comes to his aid, then starts to stammer a response. "Uh. Yeah. Yeah, I'm really tired! Bit of a headache, too. I'm willing to help out this town, regardless of whatever pains I have, however. I have my... areas of expertise. I could be of use to you."
"If there are drinking games involved. Nobody can beat me, I bet not even this ol' Dwarf. Let's hope whoever is troubling this town wants to settle for a drinking match."

Bothor looks away, afraid to look Brell in the eye, and hopes there will be no further questions. "I even made myself look mysterious, I think. Maybe they'll think I'm some sort of sorcerer. I've seen mages dressed like this. Maybe not as dirty, but still. The hat might convince them! Probably should put away the mug, though. Hell, I'll put up a show for them while I'm at it!"
With a deft toss he throws his mug, still half-filled with ale, into the air. With a flourish of his long robes he catches the old thing, not a drop spilled, making it disappear in the deep folds of his cloak. Bothor grins to himself as he hooks the mug to his belt and shows his now-empty hands to the Dwarf. "Heh, that went even better than I expected! Now I can even drink the rest when we're done here!"

Mechanics Show
Thievery: 28 Booyah!

Spoiler: Show
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2 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2011 - 8:35AM #56
DLIMedia
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2010
Posts: 1,756
The power of plot compels me!

Laris gives Bothor a puzzled look as he performs his trickery. He makes no comment on it, and Bothor isn't quite convinced that he's buying it, but at least he doesn't look as angry as he did a second ago.

"Very well then," he says as he steps in to the center of the room to address the group. "Thank you all for being here. Brell, please escort them out and bring in the next group."

"I would like a chance to speak..."

The words came from a hooded figure wearing a dark, purplish-black robe that stood just in front of the main doors, which apparently remain securely locked. None of you noticed him up to now, or are even sure how he entered the room in the first place.

Brell steps forward. "Who dares interrupt this closed session? How did you get in here?"

The cloaked figure takes a step forward and pulls his hood back, revealing himself to be a rather young elf with dark blond hair.

Laris freezes as his eyes meet the elf's. "Arlen?"

"Hello, father... It's been a while."

"But... This can't be..." Laris was at a loss for words.

Arlen steps further in to the light. His resemblance to the Lord was uncanny.

"I hear you're hiring mercenaries now?"

Lia looks confused. "Who is ths, Laris?"

"You never told her, did you?"

Laris still had trouble speaking. "It... I... I watched you die."

Arlen laughs. "About that... Maybe now is not a good time to discuss it, no?"

Brell didn't know what was going on either, but he steps alongside Laris and takes a defensive stance, shield out front. "State your business here!"

"I came to warn you, father."

"About?"

"Your pale friend was right... The dark. You must realize you can't resist it."

"How do you know this?"

"Let's just say I have close, personal knowledge of it."

The guard near the center of the chamber steps between him and the Lord, pointing his halberd at Arlen. The archers in the back of the room raise their bows in anticipation.

Arlen pans over the group. "This is all you got? Come now, you surely could do better than this."

Before anyone else can react, the wizard in white suddenly steps forward and shouts "I have you know I am..."

Arlen raises his hand and points at the wizard, causing him to go silent and freeze in fear. He slowly pans his arm down, eventually pointing to the wizard's feet. As the wizard looks down, he can begin to see the stonework below him start to billow out dark orange fumes.

"Uh oh..." he whispers.

The stonework suddenly explodes in a violent detonation of fire and acid, consuming the wizard, the dwarf and the halfling. Although the halfling manages to step out of the eruption in time, the concussive force of the blast sends him reeling. Bothor is singed as the fire bursts up right next to him, but is otherwise unharmed as he steps away. The Lord pushes Lia out of the way of the blast and stands between her and the fire.

Mechanics Show
Avernian Eruption at N9, attack vs Reflex.
Base damage roll: 13(2d10) +4 = 17
Elric: 10(1d20) +9 = 19. Hit. 17 damage, ongoing 5 damage. Elric is at 4 HP, and will be unconscious at the start of his turn.
Therin: 4(1d20) +9 = 13. Hit. 17 damage, ongoing 5 damage. Therin bloodied (down to 13 HP), prone.
Dink: 3(1d20) +8 = 11. Miss. No immediate damage, but ongoing 5 damage.

Save ends all of the above ongoing.

NOTE: Therin is prone not because of the nature of the attack, but because he's stone drunk and fell over.

I'll allow Bothor to shift 1 square away from the blast as a free  action, if he wants. He doesn't have to; he takes no damage from the  attack.


Both archers instinctively let their arrows fly at Arlen, and Gorin turns to attack with his axe, but before the assault arrives Arlen has disappeared in to a cloud of black smoke.

As the smoke clears, one could see the damage. The dwarf lies flailing helplessly on the ground, flat on his back unable to stand. All three of them are on fire, and the wizard's screams are almost ear piercing.

Laris is livid. He shouts "FIND HIM!" at nobody in particular. "Guards!"

Gorin instinctively charges out the main doors after the elf.

As the guard takes a step towards the outer doors, you begin to hear a loud commotion outside, followed by screaming. Suddenly the doors blow open and in walk a group of skeletons: three of them holding swords, three holding bows.

The Lord could not believe what he's seeing. His face starts to turn red with rage as he sees the oncoming horde.

"Brell, get Lia out of here..." he says as he hastily makes his way back to his throne to grab his weapon.

Lia, still reeling from the attack, was breathing heavily and didn't answer.

Brell already has his weapon in hand. "But..."

"GO!" he shouts as moves towards the throne.

He glances at the rest of you. "Well? Don't just stand there!"

Everyone roll initiative and any monster knowledge checks you want.

OOC Show
Laris does NOT have his weapon in hand; it's back at the throne. For that matter, Lia doesn't have her implement... Both are at their thrones.

In light of the attack, I'll allow you to have your weapons already drawn.


NPC Initiatives Show
Lord Laris: 13(1d20) +9 = 22
Brell: 14(1d20) +7 = 21
Skeleton Archers (SA1-SA3): 14(1d20) +3 = 17
Village Guard: 8(1d20) +8 = 16
Village Archers (A1 and A2): 12(1d20) +4 = 16
Skeleton Swordsman (SS1-SS3): 11(1d20) +3 = 14
Elric: 9(1d20) = 9
Dink: 3(1d20) +5 = 8
Therin: 1(1d20) +4 = 5
Lady Lia: 1(1d20) +4 = 5

If you beat those on your initiative rolls, you can go ahead and take your actions.


Map Show


Full sized map
Red square is Area of Effect for Avernian Eruption, just for reference.

Darklight Interactive - "Omne ignotum pro magnifico"

"When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer..."

A Walk In the Dark blog

Current PCs Show
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2 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2011 - 9:02AM #57
DLIMedia
Date Joined: Jul 16, 2010
Posts: 1,756
Addendum Show
In this encounter anything on the map that isn't undead counts as an ally (for flanking, for bonuses, for movement, for healing, etc...).
Darklight Interactive - "Omne ignotum pro magnifico"

"When Alexander saw the breadth of his domain he wept for there were no more worlds to conquer..."

A Walk In the Dark blog

Current PCs Show
Expedition to Castle Greyhawk (DnD 4e) - Jaana, 12th level Human Rogue
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2 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2011 - 9:36AM #58
swmabie
Date Joined: Dec 8, 2009
Posts: 8,220
mechanics Show

Initiative: 8

... more later....
Help improve the Forums: Learn some Logic!
A handy dandy list of fallacies: Which have you just committed? Show

• Ad Hominem — Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument.
Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack) — Insulting the person, not addressing the argument.
• Ad Hominem Tu Quoque — Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument.
Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition — Using emotion instead of Fact.
Bandwagon — Use of peer pressure.
• Begging the Question — Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to.
Biased Sample — Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole.
• Burden of Proof — Shifting it to the wrong side.
• Circumstantial Ad Hominem — Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument.
• Composition — Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts.
• Confusing Cause & Effect — Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction.
• Division — Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole.
• False Dilemma — Assuming that only two options exist.
• Gambler's Fallacy — Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances
• Genetic — Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim.
• Guilt by Association — Attacking others who agree with the claim.
• Hasty Generalization — Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size.
• Ignoring the Common Cause — Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things.
• Middle Ground — Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct.
• Misleading Vividness — Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence.
• Poisoning the Well — Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument.
• Post Hoc — Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first.
• Questionable Cause — Assuming that one thing causes another.
• Red Herring — Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion.
• Relativist Fallacy — Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker.
• Slippery Slope — Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another.
• Special Pleading — Claiming exemption without justification.
• Spotlight — Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole.
• Straw Man — Misrepresenting the opposing argument.
• Two Wrongs Make a Right — Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.

Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video Game Show

Jan 12, 2013 -- 1:49PM, Rogue_Elendae wrote:

Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play.  As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.

In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills.  You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end.  Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear.  Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.

Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created.  Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting.  Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point.  But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.

In WoW, you choose a class and you're done.  No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one.  There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class.  No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it.  You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do.  It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.

Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them.  Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is.  Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc.  All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point.  Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection.  Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.



Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be Inclusive Show

Mar 31, 2013 -- 8:40PM, Emerikol wrote:

I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game.   I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable.   DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games.  I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.

Having said that.  I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires.  It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective.   I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.

Do a lot of you feel this way?

Just for clarification...here are some examples...
1.  Alignment restrictions as an option.
2.  Alignment Mechanics
3.  Martial healing
4.  Races being included or not.

and so forth.  Thoughts?


Mar 31, 2013 -- 9:43PM, Authw8 wrote:

I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.

I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.

The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.

I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.

In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.


Why D&D will continue to fail economically. Show

Apr 22, 2013 -- 12:40AM, Mand12 wrote:

Mobile/tablet is not supported by WotC.  They're stuck in the past, with no coherent vision of how technology could benefit their product.

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2 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2011 - 11:22AM #59
LinYurenya
Date Joined: Sep 17, 2010
Posts: 3,938
Bothor stumbles backward. The blast took him completely by surprise, his wits starting to get befuddled by the booze already. For a moment, sounds reach him as through a body of water, and stars fill his vision. He blinks them away, pulls out his mug and drains it in one go. "What was that?"
He fills his mug, trembling in shock, and looks around the room, trying to determine what happened.
The crater next to him, filled with burning bodies, first manages to draw his attention, but then he notices everybody looking at the doors. "What are those? Are that... What the."
He raises the mug to his lips once more, again draining it in one go. "Guh. If those things kill me, least I won't feel it."
Mechanics Show
I'll take that free shift, move to K10
Initiative: 23
Combat Stat Block Show
[]Minor
[]Move
[]Standard
[]Immediate

AC: 19 Fort: 14 Reflex: 17 Will: 13
HP: 23/23
Bloodied Value: 11
Healing  Surges: 7/7
Surge Value: 5
Initiative Modifier: +5
Status:
Other Relevant Information:
Action Points: 1/1

Powers and Features
At-will
Melee Basic Attack Show

Standard, Melee weapon
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs AC (+5)
Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier (+2) damage. (1d8+2)
Five Storms Show
Attack Technique:
Standard, Close burst 1
Target: Each enemy you can see in burst
Attack: Dexterity vs Reflex
Hit: 1d8 + Dexterity modifier (+5) damage.
Movement Technique:
Move, Personal
Effect: You shift 2 squares.
Dragon's Tail Show
Attack Technique:
Standard, Melee touch
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 + Dexterity modifier (+5) damage, and you knock the target prone.
Movement Technique:
Move, Melee 1
Target: One ally or one prone target
Effect: You swap places with the target.
Crane's Wings Show
Attack Technique:
Standard, Melee touch
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs Fortitude
Hit: 1d10 + Dexterity modifier (+5) damage, and you push the target 1 square.
Movement Technique:
Move, Personal
Effect:   You make an Athletics check to jump with a +5 power bonus. You  are   considered to have a running start, and the distance of your jump  isn't   limited by your speed.
Stone Fist Flurry of Blows Show
Free, Melee 1
Target: One creature
Trigger: You hit with an attack during your turn
Effect: The target takes damage equal to 3 + your Strength modifier  (+2). If the target wasn't targeted by the attack, the damage increases  by 2.
Special: You can use this power only once per round.
Encounter
[] Action Point
[] Second Wind
[] Open the Gate of Battle Show
Attack Technique:
Standard, Melee touch
Target: One creature
Attack: Dexterity vs Reflex
Hit:   2d10 + Dexterity modifier (+5) damage. The target takes 1d10  extra   damage if it was at full hit points when you hit it with this  attack.
Movement Technique:
Move, Personal
Effect:   You move your speed +2. During this movement, you don't  provoke   opportunity attacks from the first enemy you move away   from.
Daily
[] Spinning Leopard Maneuver Show
Standard, Melee 1
Effect:   You shift your speed and can make the following attack once  against   each enemy that you move adjacent to during the shift.
Target: One enemy
Attack: Dexterity vs Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + Dexterity modifier (+5) damage.
Miss: Half damage.


Other Combat Relevant information

Spoiler: Show
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2 years ago  ::  Jan 08, 2011 - 12:20PM #60
Akavasha
Date Joined: Oct 31, 2007
Posts: 10,794

Lakota watches the scene play out between father and son. It is quite interesting, full of nuances she does not quite understand. What she does understand is the reference to the Dark, except that to her ears it sounds as if the son is an ally of the Darkness. *Fool!* Her disgust for him rises up in her and she reaches instinctively for her hammer.


The sounds of battle penetrate through the door and she draws her weapon and at Lord Laris’s order, is ready to charge through the door. Instead, she is stopped by a group of walking skeletons. Now, she cannot help but feel that those races she chooses to live among are short lived, but this is not natural. She has not had any real exposure to the undead. She just knows that this must be part of what the Darkness represents, which means they must die.

”GO!” Lakota needs no further encouragement. She flows into battle, showing a fluidness that one might not expect from a crystalline being. Her hands wrapped around her hammer, it is as if it is an extension of her being. She halts ten feet from a pair of skeletons and with a very deliberate movement, removes one hand from the handle of her weapon long enough to mark it with a symbol before she again wraps her hand around the handle.


The symbol drawn with her finger glows with a strange light and the craghammer in her hands appears to swell. With a yell, she strikes the hammer on the ground before her. Sparks fly and fire streaks out to touch all those close to her, both ally and enemy alike. The flames wash over her allies, leaving them feeling momentarily stronger. The flames that wash over the skeletons have quite a different effect, burning with a holy light to scorch and burn the walking bones.


Actions and Battle Stats Show


Actions:
Init 1d20+2=22 (Waste of a perfect 20!)
Knowledge of History of undead 1d20+7=8 (Ouch, that’s the 3rd Natural 1 I have rolled today. )

Move Action: Move 5 squares to G4 on map
Action Point: Finish moving to D5 on map
Standard Action: Use Flames of Purity with Rune of Destruction


Attack 1d20+5=22
Divine Fire Damage 1d10+3=13 to each skeleton within the blast zone. This should actually be 14 since she is wielding the hammer in both hands.

Flames of Purity
Encounter Power
Divine, Fire, Healing, Runic, Weapon
Action: Standard
Close: Blast 3
Target: Each enemy in blast
Attack: Strength vs AC
Hit: 1[W] + Str mod fire damage
Rune of Destruction: Each all in the blast gains a +3 power bonus to damage rolls until the end of our next turn.


Battle Stats Show

Hit Points: 26 (12 + Con)
Bloodied: 13
Healing Surge: 9/day
Healing Surge Value: 6

Initiative: +2
Speed: 5 squares (Base 30 feet, -1 heavy armor)
Action Points: 1, USED 1/1


Vision: Normal


Passive Insight: 17,     Passive Perception 12

Defenses
AC: 18 (Base 10, ½-lvl, 7 armor, 1 light shield)
Fort: 10  (Base 10, ½-lvl,)
Ref: 10  (Base 10, ½-lvl,)
Will: 12 (Base 10, ½-lvl, 2 runepriest)

Attacks
+05  Melee, War Hammer, 1d10+3, 10+3 crit, versatile weapon +1 damage when using 2 hands [color=gray]


Actions:
Init = 22 (Perfect 20)
Round 1: Used an Action Point to move to D5 on the map. Used Flames of Purity encounter power, causing radiant damage to at least 2 of the skeletons within the blast zone. (A22/D14 fire/Destructive Rune: +3 power bonus to all allies on damage rolls until end of Lakota’s next turn)



Everyone Show
Please note that anyone within the blast zone of Lakota (Blast zone is 3, focused on D5 on the map, receives +3 power bonus to damage rolls until the end of Lakota’s next turn (or basically for this round only, unless she delays...) So run to that area if you want to gain the benefit.  

Do NOT meddle in the affairs of dragons; for you are crunchy and go good with ketchup

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