Stalford runs a hand through his short hair. "Me? No, I'm no lore keeper. I've simply met one of your kind before. But that was years ago." he punctuates with a wave of his hand. "Lakota, you say?" Stalford reaches into his pocket and fishes out the notice he had found under his door before making his way to the Silver Bow. "I remember seeing you in line at the docks, and" he shows Lakota the notice,"It looks like we have both passed the preliminaries."
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
Ah, that makes sense. Lakota nods upon hearing that Stalford has come across another shardmind before. That would be one more then she has met in her life. “There are only a couple of people I have met up here on the surface of this world who recognize my race and our purpose. Most think I am some strange creation thought up by a magician. Even today someone thought they could steal part of me in the hopes of selling it for profit.” She hopes that was the plan. She hates to think of what some mage or madman might attempt to do with her shard.
Lakota leans over and looks at the paper Stalford is holding out. “This is good news. ” She scans further down the paper. “Why Bother, your name is right here at the top.” She congratulates the man while wondering if he will even remember this come morning. If he passes out, at least she can wake him and make sure he gets to the audience in the throne room on time.
(Sorry, short on time!)
Do NOT meddle in the affairs of dragons; for you are crunchy and go good with ketchup
Bothor stares at the Shardmind for long, long minutes. He just can't wrap his head around the thought of life in a group of levitating crystals, even though the evidence is right there in front of him. The fact that his head is running on alcohol does not speed up his cognition, either, so he barely notices the two are partially ignoring him*.
He startles as a plate is shoved onto the table in front of him, filled with steaming potatoes and vegetables alongside a thick greasy sausage. Fortunately, he recovers quickly enough to hit the table with his mug, indicating he desires a refill. Meanwhile the grubby fingers of his other hand snake out of the robe, wrapping around the length of warm meat, bringing it up to his mouth.
Another long silence follows, Lakota waiting for a reply from Bothor, and Bothor munching a tad long on that one bite of sausage, trying to remember the scraps of conversation he picked up. He swallows, grabs a potatoe, and starts to speak "My name's a bother? Whu? Howso? Iss' jus' Bothor..." His eyes slowly close and open again as he takes a bite. A fragment of a memory returns to him. "Ah, ye'. Cross an' me name on th' list, an' got free sleep'n'drink. Good deal!" A drunk smile spreads over his face, bits of food still sticking to his teeth. A thought suddenly comes to him, and with surprising swiftness he lets go of his empty mug and reaches out to grab one of the floating crystals. He holds it up close to his face to examine it. "So thissis Lakota? An' ye've seen tha' b'fore, Stafferd?" OOC*Show
Don't take that as me taking offence I just figured the two of you (well, Stalford, mostly) would rather not be seen in conversation with a drunk beggar. I'm picturing the two of you as facing slightly away from Bothor, now that you have a more 'civilised' person to talk to. If I'm mistaken, let me know Bothor is too drunk to notice, anyway
Patrin got his plate of food, and decided to stay seated at the bar, seeing as he already had one there, and all the other tables seem occupied by some group or another. He watched the man who'd caught his eye before, having never actually seen anyone drink quite so much in one week much less one sitting. Certainly, he spent time on the docks watching the stevedores and teamsters at work, and heard tales that would make his grandmother's ears burns; but he'd never actually experienced them, so it was all an amazing experience.
At any rate, he turned around on his stool while eating, since he had to hold the plate to reach it properly anyway, and watched the crowd like a man at a sporting event. His attention was regularly drawn to the beggar at the table, who reminded him of the type of people that his mother was constantly telling him to help. Protect the weak, she would tell him, for that is what Bahamut commands we do. He could not quite grasp what made them weaker than anyone else; but when he asked her, he ended up with a sore earknob where he'd been cuffed, so he knew better that to question it any more. That man is The Weak, and it's my duty to help protect him.
When the other two showed up, well, that only increased the entertainment value. The fine dressed man looked like an officer. Perhaps a captain, or a colonel? Maybe even a general or admiral? The bunch of rocks, on the other hand, was confusing. He'd heard of golems before, and some of the favorite stories of his father's were the ones in which he'd fought homunculi, things put together to serve some wizardly purpose. Perhaps some sort of thing as that? Then he noticed the man's eyepatch. A follower of Vecna? So open, and brazen? Doubtful. Perhaps, he though, he is a wizard; that might make sense, and would be why he was talking to the homunculus. Indeed, this was the most entertainment that Patrin had had in 15 years, and it was only the first few hours that he'd been in this new town. How wonderful!
• Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack)— Insulting the person, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Tu Quoque— Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument. • Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition— Using emotion instead of Fact. • Bandwagon— Use of peer pressure. • Begging the Question— Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to. • Biased Sample— Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole. • Burden of Proof— Shifting it to the wrong side. • Circumstantial Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument. • Composition— Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts. • Confusing Cause & Effect— Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction. • Division— Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole. • False Dilemma— Assuming that only two options exist. • Gambler's Fallacy— Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances • Genetic— Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim. • Guilt by Association— Attacking others who agree with the claim. • Hasty Generalization— Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size. • Ignoring the Common Cause— Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things. • Middle Ground— Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct. • Misleading Vividness— Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence. • Poisoning the Well— Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument. • Post Hoc— Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first. • Questionable Cause— Assuming that one thing causes another. • Red Herring— Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion. • Relativist Fallacy— Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker. • Slippery Slope— Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another. • Special Pleading— Claiming exemption without justification. • Spotlight— Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole. • Straw Man— Misrepresenting the opposing argument. • Two Wrongs Make a Right— Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.
Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video GameShow
Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play. As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.
In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills. You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end. Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear. Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.
Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created. Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting. Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point. But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.
In WoW, you choose a class and you're done. No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one. There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class. No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it. You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do. It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.
Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them. Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is. Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc. All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point. Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection. Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.
Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be InclusiveShow
I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game. I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable. DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games. I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.
Having said that. I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires. It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective. I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.
Do a lot of you feel this way?
Just for clarification...here are some examples... 1. Alignment restrictions as an option. 2. Alignment Mechanics 3. Martial healing 4. Races being included or not.
I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.
I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.
The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.
I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.
In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.
For the second time that day, astonishment fills her. What is it with these people and their need to grab her? She leans forward, hand outstretched. “Excuse me, but I do not think we know each other well enough for you to be fondling me.” The dwarves always found that line particularly humorous and would slap each other on the backs and tease the culprit for months. Dwarves love gems, elements, and being able to work the metals of the earth. The culprit who had grabbed up one of her shards was often accused of being too into his work. Of course, this was all said in jest and Lakota has never taken offense.
She does push her hand a bit closer to Bothor, palm up and flat, emphasizing the fact that he needs to return her crystal. “The part you are holding is only a small portion of me, like your finger is a small portion of you.” There is a bit more to it than that but she finds people seem to understand if she keeps it simple. She could loose this shard and not be diminished in a way that one of these soft bodied people would be if they lost a finger. She can regrow her shard, where most people cannot, but it would take up time and energy she does not want to spend. She looks over at Stalford. The patch over one of his visual orbs only proves her point.
She looks back at Bothor, the white-blue light that pass for her eyes ever unblinking. "Perhaps I have misunderstood. Do you want to exchange? I will take your mug and you will take my finger?" She starts to lower her outstretched hand down toward the mug, but slowly, giving Bothor a chance to dump her faintly glowing shard in her hand before it reaches the mug.
Do NOT meddle in the affairs of dragons; for you are crunchy and go good with ketchup
"Fondlin'? Eh?" Dumbly Bothor stares at the crystal, then to the place where he extracted it from. Had she been a real Dwarf, she'd be sporting a hole just above her right breast. "Ma fing'r? Whu'?" His eyes find his hand, still holding the crystal. Slowly he raises his pinky finger. He had to admit, he's gotten attached to the tiny appendage over the years. A slight tinkling in the air draws his attention back to the Shardmind, and Bothor traces her gaze and finds himself looking at Stalford's eyepatch. Slightly dull-witted, he raises his hand to touch his own eye, then starts as the warm crystal hits his cheek first. He freezes.
"My mug? You'll not take my mug, thing." A fire burns in his eyes, the intoxicating effects of the liquor quickly draining away. Angrily he dumps the crystal in her hand, snatches up his mug and gets to his feet. For a moment he considers taking his plate, but doing so would only make him look the fool. Instead, he chooses to stalk off wordlessly.
Anybody watching the scene would see a robed beggar drink the night away, only to suddenly stand up from his plate of food. They would also know standing up after such a long time sitting and drinking, could only result in the drunk beggar hitting the floor, face first. And this is exactly what happens, almost.
The drink hits Bothor like a sledgehammer. The first two steps are fine, but then the ground suddenly veers towards him. His face already contorts in the expectation of pain, but his arms seem to be controlled by a different, completely sober, brain. They find their way clear of the long robe, the hands slapping the floor softly and rotating the body to cartwheel his feet to safety in one smooth motion. The hands even find time to snatch up the wide bamboo hat and deposit it gently on the black-haired head.
Somewhat surprised by his own antics, but his anger still burning inside, he reaches the bar. A poor thin fellow gets unceremoniously shoved off his seat, much to his dismay, but a deadly glare stops him from retaliating at the stumbling drunk. Bothor dismissed him the moment he started to slink off towards the exit, not caring about any questioning stares directed at him from various people in the room. "Damn crystal heap, try'na steal my mug", he mutters, loud enough for the Kobold occupying the next seat to hear, though the man keeps his hat down to avoid any eye-contact.
Lakota watches the man stumble away and only then does her hand close over the shard. “How odd.” She is uncertain what else to say. It seems something is required but she is not sure what. She puts the shard back and looks at Stalford to study his reaction to the incident. Perhaps she has a chance to learn something about human emotions from this odd encounter.
The shardmind sits perfectly still, unblinking and unmoving. It may appear she is a 'thing,' as Bothor called her, but she is not. She does recognize that she is quite different from what someone like the drunk man is used to dealing with, but that does not make her a thing. Yet, the insult does not injure her in any way. It may be the man's perception of her but that does not mean it is correct. People believe all sorts of things that are not true. What use would it be to get upset over even one of them? None that she can see.
Do NOT meddle in the affairs of dragons; for you are crunchy and go good with ketchup
Patrin suddenly finds himself put in A Position. A position of what, or for what, he's not quite certain. The moment the beggar came over and sat by him - whether it was because the man he'd been watching actually sat by him, or the manner in which said man tumbled his way from the table to the bar in one fluid motion, or just because of the pressure that he suddenly felt himself under to do what was Right - at that very moment everything that Zinna had taught him about helping the poor, the weak, and the destitute completely left him. What is it, hate the lover and sin with the sinner? No, that doesn't seem right. Oh, Bahamut, please give me guidance....
In the meantime, rather than have an awkward silence, or even a comfortable one, Patrin figures he might as well strike up a conversation. But about what? Something important to the man, obviously, to get his interest....
Patrin latches onto the most obvious thing, at the moment. "Why, good evening sir, that is an awfully nice chalice you have there. Is it a family heirloom?" He peers up under the brim of the straw hat, trying to gauge the man to whom he's talking. "My parents had a similar set, that had been handed down from my grandparents, which had come from their parents, and so on, all the way back to the days of Arkhosia, or so they say. Every generation in the service of the great and powerful Platinum One himself." He sighs, and frowns briefly, "Well, every one except me, as of yet." He shrugs, then cheers himself up, "But one day, I'll know my place. In the meantime, that is indeed a very fine flagon of yours. My family's set, they have the symbol of Bahamut and his church, of course; that's why they got handed down to everyone who served Him." He sighs happily, and hmms. "I suppose that if one served Erathis, they'd have images of the church itself, or at least of castles and keeps and such all over them...." He ponders this, aloud. "I mean, it makes perfect sense. After all, one would have chalices with palaces, if the other has flagons with dragons. Does your flagon have a dragon, or is it a chalice with a palace? Or perhaps a mug with a bug, or a glass with a lass, or a tankard with... with...." He frowns, and pauses for a moment, then sighs. "Well, I can't think of anything that rhymes with tankard. But if there is something that rhymes with tankard, is it on yours?" He seems almost breathless with anticipation to find out.
• Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack)— Insulting the person, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Tu Quoque— Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument. • Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition— Using emotion instead of Fact. • Bandwagon— Use of peer pressure. • Begging the Question— Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to. • Biased Sample— Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole. • Burden of Proof— Shifting it to the wrong side. • Circumstantial Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument. • Composition— Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts. • Confusing Cause & Effect— Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction. • Division— Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole. • False Dilemma— Assuming that only two options exist. • Gambler's Fallacy— Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances • Genetic— Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim. • Guilt by Association— Attacking others who agree with the claim. • Hasty Generalization— Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size. • Ignoring the Common Cause— Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things. • Middle Ground— Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct. • Misleading Vividness— Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence. • Poisoning the Well— Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument. • Post Hoc— Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first. • Questionable Cause— Assuming that one thing causes another. • Red Herring— Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion. • Relativist Fallacy— Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker. • Slippery Slope— Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another. • Special Pleading— Claiming exemption without justification. • Spotlight— Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole. • Straw Man— Misrepresenting the opposing argument. • Two Wrongs Make a Right— Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.
Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video GameShow
Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play. As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.
In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills. You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end. Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear. Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.
Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created. Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting. Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point. But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.
In WoW, you choose a class and you're done. No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one. There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class. No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it. You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do. It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.
Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them. Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is. Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc. All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point. Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection. Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.
Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be InclusiveShow
I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game. I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable. DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games. I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.
Having said that. I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires. It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective. I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.
Do a lot of you feel this way?
Just for clarification...here are some examples... 1. Alignment restrictions as an option. 2. Alignment Mechanics 3. Martial healing 4. Races being included or not.
I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.
I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.
The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.
I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.
In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.
If Stalford looks like an officer, it's in his bearings. He wears no medals of rank at all. And the Vecna line had me cracking up
Stalford has been paying somewhat more attention to Lakota than Bothor, it is true. Some may interpret his politeness combined with not replying to Bothor's questions to be an indicator that he doesn't want to talk to the man, but truth be told, Stalford has no aversion to being seen talking to a drunken beggar. He simply can't understand a word coming from the man's mouth, and is, as such, unsure of how to reply. He watches the exchange between the drunk and the shardmind with some amusement, though. He waves when Bothor storms off, ans nearly gets up to help Bothor up from his fall, when the man cartwheels instead. That explains why he is on the list. Interesting. I wonder if it's simply an act?
Turning back to Lakota, he tries to explain. "At a guess, that man's mug is more a part of him than your little crystal is of you. Ah, well, you couldn't have known." presently, a maid brings Stalford's food. "Ah! I was beginning to wonder. Thank you, lass."he says with a winning smile. After a bite or two, he looks to Lakota. "It really is too bad you can't enjoy this. My...old friend, he always said eating was an inconvenience that he was glad not to endure, but I think food can be an art form."
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
Bothor struggles to keep up with the quick yapping of the Kobold. "Chalis'? Par... Plat'num? Whu'?" A quick struggle, to be fair. One quickly lost, too. After the mention of platinum, his mind drifts off to dreams of money. A platinum coin would buy a man a lot of ale.
At the mention of flagons and dragons the Kobold manages to draw his attention again for a moment, but when the Human realises the lizard is still talking as fast as before. His eyes drift shut for a moment, and when they open he turns to the bartender. "Giv' tha' cr'ture a drink, w'ld'ya?" The innkeep, obviously used to the mumbling of drunken customers, nods and slides a large tankard over to Patrin, hesitates for a moment, then fills Bothor's mug as well.
"Y'need a drink, lil' fellow." Bothor shows his teeth in a grin. "Tha' tankard'll keep y'r tongue anch'rd! An' th's 'ere mug 's a friend. Bes' friend. N'ttin' else. N'ttin' spesh'l." His eyes drift shut again, and he sways on his chair. He's in danger of toppling over, when suddenly his eyes shoot open and he grabs the bar, righting himself. "Oh, th'name's Bothor, b'th'way. Heh."
I just figured the two of you (well, Stalford, mostly) would rather not be seen in conversation with a drunk beggar. I'm picturing the two of you as facing slightly away from Bothor, now that you have a more 'civilised' person to talk to. If I'm mistaken, let me know 
Bothor is too drunk to notice, anyway 
