I like having some example unique items pre-made in the books. Especially some throw-backs and classics. But they're usually more of a jumping off point for me. I like to design my own items and I don't particularly care for rules (and a chapter thereof) to tell me how to do it "the right way". I generally disregard these rules and generate my ideas. My players enjoy the weapons, items, and artifact I create, and that's the important part. I work hard to make balanced items that don't break...
View full commentI like having some example unique items pre-made in the books. Especially some throw-backs and classics. But they're usually more of a jumping off point for me. I like to design my own items and I don't particularly care for rules (and a chapter thereof) to tell me how to do it "the right way". I generally disregard these rules and generate my ideas. My players enjoy the weapons, items, and artifact I create, and that's the important part. I work hard to make balanced items that don't break games. I give my players my own unique and personal parts of the game - often custom tailored for specific characters. I am not opposed to having guidelines, especially for newer DMs, but leave them at that, and drop the expectations for characters to upgrade their weapons like they do in console RPGs. It ruins the magic. No pun intended. Honestly.
The monsters in D&D Next are bland. But, hey, we are just starting out. I have regularly added an ability or two to monsters to keep them from just being sources of damage. The Monsters in 4th Ed. are better because they where not just a Goblin, but many types of Goblins, each with their own special powers and abilities. With Pathfinder, you can add classes to monsters, but that does take time and is hard to run off the cuff. It is easy to add powers to monster in 4th Ed. My suggestion would be...
View full commentThe monsters in D&D Next are bland. But, hey, we are just starting out. I have regularly added an ability or two to monsters to keep them from just being sources of damage. The Monsters in 4th Ed. are better because they where not just a Goblin, but many types of Goblins, each with their own special powers and abilities. With Pathfinder, you can add classes to monsters, but that does take time and is hard to run off the cuff. It is easy to add powers to monster in 4th Ed. My suggestion would be have a base monster with a number of examples of special abilitys that follow with their culture and mannerisms. Have goblins that snipe, sneak and/or backstab. Have Gnolls that go berzerk, use vile poisons and/or have demonic gifts. Each power would have an XP kicker if needed.
Oh, one more thing. I keep seeing comments like "The DM should just add or alter whatever they want". That is true and a good philosphy. But, if DMs are just supposed to make it up themselves, then why have a rulebook? And how are the players supposed to have any idea what to expect?
I'm a guy. I like pretty women. But all these bikini-clad or bare-midriff adventurers are ridiculous. It makes NO SENSE. It breaks immersion. And it makes it that much harder for many girls or young women to find D&D approachable. Also, as a guy who likes playing funny characters, I think the occasional funny-looking guy or gal is perfectly appropriate. D&D is about adventure, but there should be room for other elements, and one of those is humor. Don't make D&D so...
View full commentI'm a guy. I like pretty women. But all these bikini-clad or bare-midriff adventurers are ridiculous. It makes NO SENSE. It breaks immersion. And it makes it that much harder for many girls or young women to find D&D approachable.
Also, as a guy who likes playing funny characters, I think the occasional funny-looking guy or gal is perfectly appropriate. D&D is about adventure, but there should be room for other elements, and one of those is humor.
Don't make D&D so 1-dimensional (or even 2-dimensional). Leave some room in it for the real world to creep in, where sometimes you fall in love with the average-looking but wonderful girl...
The only thing I need from books is numbers and a small descriptions/flavor. I find large and extensive fluff blocks to be rather useless, as they often don't fit into whatever particular setting or situation I happen to be running. I care about numbers because I want the numbers to be balanced. I never want to worry about mechanical balance - everything else I can make up, but please don't make me do math.
View full commentThe only thing I need from books is numbers and a small descriptions/flavor. I find large and extensive fluff blocks to be rather useless, as they often don't fit into whatever particular setting or situation I happen to be running.
I care about numbers because I want the numbers to be balanced. I never want to worry about mechanical balance - everything else I can make up, but please don't make me do math.
I agree with other posters that the 2e page design is an ideal balance. I also want to make a statement heretical to game design: In past editions, annoying gaps in design have led to great play. 2nd ed often left the GM without a clear answer, leading to improvisation and better role-playing. Being outsmarted by players is fine, and as long as they haven't broken the game outright, exploiting the setting (not just an ill-worded rule) is a good thing. In real life, there are lots of...
View full commentI agree with other posters that the 2e page design is an ideal balance.
I also want to make a statement heretical to game design: In past editions, annoying gaps in design have led to great play. 2nd ed often left the GM without a clear answer, leading to improvisation and better role-playing. Being outsmarted by players is fine, and as long as they haven't broken the game outright, exploiting the setting (not just an ill-worded rule) is a good thing. In real life, there are lots of balance issues, and any plausible world should have its own. This might be animals that behave wrong and have unexpected abilities/weaknesses or common magic that changes the ways society functions.
I like varying complexities and mechanics between character classes. That's what makes it fun. A wizard doesn't have healing powers, sword-skills, armor, or an affinity for stealth and shadow. In being a wizard you have chosen that you want to be a spellcaster, one who fights with his magic. In being a rogue, you have forgone spellbooks and claymores for sneak attacks and lock-picking. Maybe the NUMBER of traits doesn't add up, but those traits are also in varying areas of that character, and...
View full commentI like varying complexities and mechanics between character classes. That's what makes it fun. A wizard doesn't have healing powers, sword-skills, armor, or an affinity for stealth and shadow. In being a wizard you have chosen that you want to be a spellcaster, one who fights with his magic. In being a rogue, you have forgone spellbooks and claymores for sneak attacks and lock-picking. Maybe the NUMBER of traits doesn't add up, but those traits are also in varying areas of that character, and just reducing it to how much one class gets compared to another isn't fair. I don't think that picking a wizard is more challenging than playing a fighter - it's a more complex experience maybe, but some people can wrap their minds around magic very easily and they, in choosing a wizard, understand his advantages and drawbacks. It's my opinion that there be mechanical differences across the board and that not every class should get something from each category of mechanic just so they're not left out.
Just joined and grinding through previous posts. I wanted to agree with Blackdrazon. I believe it is very important to have classes that are both simpler and more complicated than the median (yes, that will happen by definition, buy you know what I mean). There need to be novice-friendly classes to introduce new players, and more complex classes for those who like to juggle options. The simple option is especially important. I run a youth D&D game and I've watched them run through...
View full commentJust joined and grinding through previous posts. I wanted to agree with Blackdrazon. I believe it is very important to have classes that are both simpler and more complicated than the median (yes, that will happen by definition, buy you know what I mean). There need to be novice-friendly classes to introduce new players, and more complex classes for those who like to juggle options.
The simple option is especially important. I run a youth D&D game and I've watched them run through first wanting to smash things as fighters, growing envious of mid-level mages and moving there, and ultimately realizing that a party is doomed without healing support, rogue scouting, and general balance. The progression is important.
I'm also greatly enjoying your investigations of earlier editions. I'm currently playing 4E, but trying to apply some of the principles of traditional D&D. For example, I don't scale encounters and run a rather open-ended sandbox campaign with no set plot (though there are plenty of events which the PCs can interact with). My game is also a bit more dangerous than by the book 4E (I use the AD&D dead at -10 rules rather than the death saving throw system). None of my players have had a PC...
I'm also greatly enjoying your investigations of earlier editions. I'm currently playing 4E, but trying to apply some of the principles of traditional D&D. For example, I don't scale encounters and run a rather open-ended sandbox campaign with no set plot (though there are plenty of events which the PCs can interact with). My game is also a bit more dangerous than by the book 4E (I use the AD&D dead at -10 rules rather than the death saving throw system). None of my players have had a PC die yet, though several have come close (and none of them have plot immunity).
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I think part of the cognitive dissonance when playing an earlier edition after playing later editions comes from the idea that PCs should be able to take on encounters directly. If you do that, then you will indeed have 2-4 deaths per 4 hour session. But smart play often centers around avoiding or circumventing encounters rather than fighting. The fact that any combat is dangerous to a low level Holmes characters means that a smart Holmes character will fight only when they absolutely must. I could easily see a game with no "fair fights" at all during the first few levels. Not all players enjoy this kind of game--they want to be able to charge forward guns blazing.
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In any case, I agree with you regarding Moldvay: it is indeed the pinacle of D&D. :-)
Very interesting, Untimately! I think a lot on that issue of survivability. I'm not sure if this ends up being a style of play issue or how central it is to an edition's feel. If PCs could easily survive level 1 in AD&D, but it got harder after that, would the game be fundamentally different? Did so many groups start at level 3 or higher just to "get past that" as a friend said to me recently? At the same time, I love that exploration and out-of-the-box thinking. But is low survivability a...
View full commentVery interesting, Untimately! I think a lot on that issue of survivability. I'm not sure if this ends up being a style of play issue or how central it is to an edition's feel. If PCs could easily survive level 1 in AD&D, but it got harder after that, would the game be fundamentally different? Did so many groups start at level 3 or higher just to "get past that" as a friend said to me recently? At the same time, I love that exploration and out-of-the-box thinking. But is low survivability a critical part of that, or can we move that to other areas (such as encounter design regardless of survivability)?
You should list the variations on ability in the class's overview, and just give the monsters a couple dozen (at most) categories they can be in, preventing stat block bloat while keeping class uniqueness. It would be optimal if you could keep class and monster parity while minimizing class/monster similarity. The most important thing is: fluff before crunch. To often, I see you guys focusing on the stat element of D&D while leaving the flavor as an afterthought. Bad idea! Avoid this!
Special takes on monster resistances and vulnerabilities should exist but rarely so; otherwise, utilize categorical vulnerabilities as learned "Bobo the Talking Clown" has stated before me. Try offering different weaponry and tactics given terrain and opposition. Mention weak tactical notions of various monsters. For example, I've noticed that some carnivorous mammals do not recognize a long pointed stick as a danger. While most beasts in D&D would recognize a hunter's spear (or any...
View full commentSpecial takes on monster resistances and vulnerabilities should exist but rarely so; otherwise, utilize categorical vulnerabilities as learned "Bobo the Talking Clown" has stated before me.
Try offering different weaponry and tactics given terrain and opposition. Mention weak tactical notions of various monsters. For example, I've noticed that some carnivorous mammals do not recognize a long pointed stick as a danger. While most beasts in D&D would recognize a hunter's spear (or any variation thereof), spellcasters wouldn't be targeted by beasts and the less smart monsters. Dumb monsters won't realize the connection between spellcasting and a spell effect, which might seem to them an unrelated catastrophe. On the other hand, magical monsters that can sense magic (smell it even) might know to target a spellcaster or even which spellcaster to target and when.
I'd like to see the return to primary mention of rotgrubs, jellies, slimes, fungi, gelatins, and molds.
Sentient diseases might not be abnormal -- it is a magical world being described and magical diseases might have as many powerful traits as a magical sword. Remember, it is I, September, who imagined such a thing! Also credit Greg Bear, Orson Scott Card, Bill Peet, and a multitude of others.
As someone who has been playing DnD and running DnD campaigns for nearly two decades: players should never die. Player character death creates frustration, both in the affected player (if he/she did not see it coming) as well as in the other players ("what are we going to do now") but also for the DM. Game over usually means game over for everyone at the table. Death should never be a punishment for reckless behaviour of players. Talk things out before it gets out of hand. A worse penalty for...
View full commentAs someone who has been playing DnD and running DnD campaigns for nearly two decades: players should never die. Player character death creates frustration, both in the affected player (if he/she did not see it coming) as well as in the other players ("what are we going to do now") but also for the DM. Game over usually means game over for everyone at the table. Death should never be a punishment for reckless behaviour of players. Talk things out before it gets out of hand. A worse penalty for **** players is just to ignore their ramblings.
e.g.
Player A: I run into the orc camp, waking them all, so we can fight them all at the same time. LOL
Other players: What? No, we sneak about, trying not to wake anyone.
Player A: Too late, I already woke them. ROFL
DM: Player A's character decides it's a bad idea to wake up orcs, and doesn't. The party tries to sneak about... roll your sneak checks!
I've had players like that who usually stopped showing up after a couple of weeks
My characters die all the time ... ... and I love it. It makes the characters who do survive all the more memorable. When one of my characters reaches high level, it's an accomplishment. For a while, we tried this whole "nobody dies unless sdoing something foolish" approach. Reaching high level was no longer an accomplishment. It felt a lot like graduation: Player 1: "I made it to 20th level." Player 2: "Who doesn't?" So, we eventually went back a few steps to the...
It makes the characters who do survive all the more memorable. When one of my characters reaches high level, it's an accomplishment.
For a while, we tried this whole "nobody dies unless sdoing something foolish" approach. Reaching high level was no longer an accomplishment. It felt a lot like graduation:
Player 1: "I made it to 20th level."
Player 2: "Who doesn't?"
So, we eventually went back a few steps to the old way of doing it. Compare:
Player 1: "I made it to 20th level."
Player 2: "OMG! That rocks, bro!"
I like skills in 3E but found the points system too fiddly and also the bonuses got to big to fast, higher levels could almost always make a check unless I threw in ridiculous DCs. I like the Tier idea, just make sure it scales with the levels.
I in general like the skill points of 3e, but I also liked when semi-redundant skills were merged. I, however, want the merges to make sense. It makes sense for Open Lock and Disable Device to go together, and it makes sense for Sleight-of-Hand and Escape Artist to go together, but it does not really make sense to me to combine all four into one skill. Also, I strongly believe in a difference between Search skill as an active skill, and Spot and Listen belonging to a separate, passive...
View full commentI in general like the skill points of 3e, but I also liked when semi-redundant skills were merged. I, however, want the merges to make sense. It makes sense for Open Lock and Disable Device to go together, and it makes sense for Sleight-of-Hand and Escape Artist to go together, but it does not really make sense to me to combine all four into one skill.
Also, I strongly believe in a difference between Search skill as an active skill, and Spot and Listen belonging to a separate, passive Perception skill. I say this because I suffer from ADHD in real life, and if I as a real person were ever to be expressed as a character, I would have tremendous Perception skill and terribly abysmal Search skills. I always notice when something enters a room, or says my name to rooms away, or moves suddenly at the corner of my vision, or catches the light in a weird way. But it can take me 20 minutes to find my glasses when they are sitting on a bookshelf because I just can't focus my attention to the details in front of my face.
Anyway, even streamlined, I can see how the skill point system can be a little boggy, and the tiers sound promising.
How about an ability similar to the clerical way of "memorizing" spells? An invoker can memorize a bunch of spells, but burn them for a fireball spell, similar to how a positive aligned cleric can burn (substitute) a bless for a cure light wounds. This allows for more flexibility than a straight vacian system, and allows for more utilitarian spells to be memorized without withholding combat effectiveness. You could go more of an opposite route with a utilitarian specialty memorizing combat...
View full commentHow about an ability similar to the clerical way of "memorizing" spells? An invoker can memorize a bunch of spells, but burn them for a fireball spell, similar to how a positive aligned cleric can burn (substitute) a bless for a cure light wounds. This allows for more flexibility than a straight vacian system, and allows for more utilitarian spells to be memorized without withholding combat effectiveness. You could go more of an opposite route with a utilitarian specialty memorizing combat spells, but changing them out when they really need that illusion or transmute spell.
How about improvised magic as an option? This should be less powerful than planned magic. It is costed based upon the liklihood of the effect. Things that are likely anyway are easy and strange things are expensive. Maelstrom and GURPS both feature concepts like it. Examples are given for the most common cases (ie. iconic spells) and perhaps combat magic (which must be faster to draw upon both for the player and the character) must be of the pre-baked libraries (Vancian or Powers).
Post Script: Just read Marco9999's post, and sort of agree with that. One doesn't need to be able to kick a god in the danglies to be an epic character, and it can be fun to start as someone who's not special now but get's awesome later. However, not everyone likes to play that way. I certainly think that PCs should definitely feel above average by level three at the latest, because anything else isn't necessarily fun to play. If low-levels aren't different, people just start rolling...
View full commentPost Script:
Just read Marco9999's post, and sort of agree with that. One doesn't need to be able to kick a god in the danglies to be an epic character, and it can be fun to start as someone who's not special now but get's awesome later.
However, not everyone likes to play that way. I certainly think that PCs should definitely feel above average by level three at the latest, because anything else isn't necessarily fun to play. If low-levels aren't different, people just start rolling up characters at higher levels. Perhaps one of the rule modules can incorporate a stile of play where low levels are weaker, but advance more swiftly until by level X they've caught up with normal character progression and can just move forward from there.
I like the idea of high-level play in a way as to its own game, if that makes sense. If I start playing low level characters, I prefer they progress through the world as it exists, rather than going beyond it. The original D&D knew this well enough, as things progressed back to Chainmail, with the characters leading the armies. While it's an RPG parody, take the Anniversary Edition of Paranoia as an example: the player begins as Troubleshooters, stomped on by the world, and can progress...
View full commentI like the idea of high-level play in a way as to its own game, if that makes sense. If I start playing low level characters, I prefer they progress through the world as it exists, rather than going beyond it. The original D&D knew this well enough, as things progressed back to Chainmail, with the characters leading the armies.
While it's an RPG parody, take the Anniversary Edition of Paranoia as an example: the player begins as Troubleshooters, stomped on by the world, and can progress to High Programmers, who do the stomping (of course, it still blows up in their faces: it's still Paranoia). I love that. Unfortunately, like in Paranoia, the high levels require a different style of play, and most players don't like that - I still do, however, and my reason is simple: things SHOULD change as the situation improves. The idea of still doing (glorified) dungeon crawling after a long campaign always seemed silly to me. _The change in gameplay is the reward._
While I own the Epic Handbook for 3.5, it was for playing a "superhero"-style fantasy game. It simply doesn't make sense to me in the logical progression of things.
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