After a lot of thinking I've decided to drop out of my games on these forums. I'm not enjoying it as much as I used to and between 2 jobs and personal life I haven't given these games the time they deserve.
I also let small matters bother me way too much so I should apologize if what I said came off as threatening violence. That was not my intention, and if I upset anyone please forgive me. I hope this doent inconveniance you too much and wish you all the best.
Sorry to hear that... Please let me know (quickly) if you are having second thoughts about it... I guess I have to start looking for a replacement in the meantime. Thanks for playing in this game.
Hummm, now that I finished the post, it feels like Mightyman's post was maybe a screw-up, not taking Az' actions into account. Zaffa made a similar move to Az, freeing the righ side of the battlefield...
Umm, Azimuth didn't hit anyone with a Melee attack. It was a Close Blast, not Melee.
Also, Zaffa slowed the Urikite with her attack. So moving from (L,12) to (L,19) would be 3 further than the maximum he could (and that would be by running), unless he had something to counter being slowed. Not to mention that Zaffa should have gotten an OA too....
Luusi says she'll take her turn tonight, but I think she'd appreciate either an updated map, or confirmation of the actions taken.
• Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack)— Insulting the person, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Tu Quoque— Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument. • Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition— Using emotion instead of Fact. • Bandwagon— Use of peer pressure. • Begging the Question— Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to. • Biased Sample— Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole. • Burden of Proof— Shifting it to the wrong side. • Circumstantial Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument. • Composition— Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts. • Confusing Cause & Effect— Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction. • Division— Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole. • False Dilemma— Assuming that only two options exist. • Gambler's Fallacy— Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances • Genetic— Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim. • Guilt by Association— Attacking others who agree with the claim. • Hasty Generalization— Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size. • Ignoring the Common Cause— Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things. • Middle Ground— Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct. • Misleading Vividness— Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence. • Poisoning the Well— Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument. • Post Hoc— Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first. • Questionable Cause— Assuming that one thing causes another. • Red Herring— Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion. • Relativist Fallacy— Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker. • Slippery Slope— Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another. • Special Pleading— Claiming exemption without justification. • Spotlight— Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole. • Straw Man— Misrepresenting the opposing argument. • Two Wrongs Make a Right— Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.
Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video GameShow
Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play. As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.
In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills. You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end. Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear. Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.
Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created. Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting. Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point. But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.
In WoW, you choose a class and you're done. No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one. There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class. No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it. You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do. It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.
Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them. Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is. Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc. All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point. Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection. Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.
Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be InclusiveShow
I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game. I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable. DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games. I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.
Having said that. I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires. It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective. I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.
Do a lot of you feel this way?
Just for clarification...here are some examples... 1. Alignment restrictions as an option. 2. Alignment Mechanics 3. Martial healing 4. Races being included or not.
I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.
I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.
The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.
I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.
In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.
I must have been sleep deprived when I did the post (which was the case the entire week, so safe bet).... I will be on a plane tomorrow morning and out of reach for 4 days (work)... so I will correct when I come back
Thenin has been hiding a secret for the majority of his adult life. It began in his dreams as a boy, as visions of what he could only imagine were great forests of massive trees burned in a song of peace and violence. The dreams were as lucid as seeing the world awake, and yet he'd never seen a forest, or even a tree close to the size of those that smoldered and exploded whilst he slept. When he told his mother of the dreams she would rake her hand through his thick black hair with a smile, then tell him tales of his father, the elven runner Laramis. It wasn't until he reached his teenage years that the fire began to manifest itself in him. His mother seemed to know what to do with her son, and she sent him to a venerable druid. The grizzled old man told Thenin of the power and importance of the flame. How the once great forests of Athas were healed and revitalized by its touch. Some groves, he said, could not reproduce without the fire's aid. Since the fall of the great groves, flame had been used for only destructive purposes. Flame could be incredibly destructive, and yet not many understood it's benefit to man as well as to nature. Thenin felt the touch of primordial fire that day. His mother new to hide the fact from the other inhabitants of Tyr. As a young man Thenin did his best to work hard without the use of powers that he became more aware of every day. Even as he was persecuted by the humans in his community he resisted the urge to use his terrible power. Then the Tyrian Revolt hit home, and Thenin joined the cause. As freemen, his mother and he were poor, and he wanted so much more for them. He knew the persecution that he'd endured to be a tool of the Templars to keep the poor in line. But no more. A member of the Veiled Alliance saw plainly the arcanic signature within Thenin, armed him with staff, and led him to war. Thenin and his fires scorched the forces of Kalak, laying low even the greatest Half-Giants before him. When the smoke finally cleared, the revolutionaries were victorious. Adamax of the Veiled Alliance vouched for the young man's heart, and he was inducted into their ranks. He has never defiled the ground that he considers sacred, for he longs to be a part of the great forests of his childhood dreams. Psionic Wild Talent: 10[html]1d10=10[/html] Spoiler:Show
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Thenin, level 4 Half-Elf, Sorcerer (Elementalist) Eldritch Strike Option: Eldritch Strike Charisma Elemental Specialty Option: Fire Elementalist Half-Elf Power Selection Option: Dilettante Dark Sun, Inherent Bonuses Tyr - Revolutionary (+2 to Endurance) Theme: Veiled Alliance FINAL ABILITY SCORES STR 10, CON 19, DEX 12, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 19 STARTING ABILITY SCORES STR 10, CON 16, DEX 12, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 16 AC: 19 Fort: 17 Ref: 14 Will: 19 HP: 46 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 11 TRAINED SKILLS Arcana +7, Bluff +11, Diplomacy +13, Endurance +13 UNTRAINED SKILLS Acrobatics +3, Athletics +2, Dungeoneering +2, Heal +2, History +2, Insight +4, Intimidate +6, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +2, Stealth +3, Streetwise +6, Thievery +3 POWERS Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack Veiled Alliance Feature: Excise from Sight Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Bolt Sorcerer Attack: Blazing Cloud Sorcerer Attack: Elemental Escalation (Fire) Wild Talent Cantrip: Thought Projection Warlock Attack 1: Eldritch Strike Bluff Utility 2: False Bravado FEATS Level 1: Resilient Focus Level 2: Unarmored Agility Level 4: Staff Expertise ITEMS Staff Implement x1 Bloodthread Cloth Armor (Basic Clothing) +1 x1 ====== End ======
