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Switch to Forum Live View [4E] Angels with Dirty Faces IC
6 months ago  ::  Jan 14, 2013 - 8:43AM #1411
TheWalrus42
Date Joined: Jan 10, 2012
Posts: 974
Adrian nearly keels over from the ball of tar that comes flying at him, but manages to save himself from the brink as quickly as he approached it. Now a little more than annoyed at these creatures - who fight even without their leader, a curious sort - he lashes out in retaliation for the damage done to his own body.

Once, twice, three times he slashes at his target, not even making an attempt to maneuver behind as he normally would. He ends his onslaught with a backwards somersault, luring his foe closer to Breelana so that she may take a whack as well.

Mechanics Show

Take 2 fire damage

Standard Action: Second Wind
Minor Action: Fury's Advance on Tar Devil 2
    Attack: 16 vs AC Hit?
    (On a miss) No Action: Heroic Effort
        Effect: Add 4 to the roll, making it 20 vs AC
    Hit: 3 damage, and I opt to ignore the other effects.
Minor Action: Sohei Flurry on Tar Devil 2
    Attack: 17 vs AC Hit?
    Hit: 11 damage.
Action Point: Overwhelming Strike on Tar Devil 2
    Attack: 22 vs AC Hit?
    Hit: 8 damage. I shift to AK-46 and slide Tar Devil 2 to AJ-47.

Save vs Slow/Ongoing Fire: 19 Success

Stat Block Show
Adrian d'Arcangeli
Male Good Human Hybrid Avenger|Swordmage, 3rd Lvl 
Theme: Sohei    Deity: Corellon
Vitals: Medium, 6' tall, 175 lbs.
66 years old, hails from Harken
Languages: Common, Primordial
Senses: 19 Insight, 
19 Perception, 
Normal Vision
Encounter Powers 
[X] Second Wind
[X] Sohei Flurry
[?] Heroic Effort
[X]* Oath of Enmity
[_]* Aegis of Ensnarement
[X] Falcon's Mark
[_] Avenger's Resolve
[X] Fury's Advance 
[_] Southern Star Ring the Bell
[_] Five Stars Arrow Deflection 
Daily Powers 
[X][X] Action Point
[_] Aspect of Might

HP:
HS: 
AC:
Fort:
Ref:
Will:
Core
39
8
21
14
16
16
RndX
10
2

THP
Surge: 9hp
Init: +2
Speed: 6
Resist: none 
Saves: none

*In-effect*
Oath of Enmity: Against enemies subject to this oath, when I make a melee attack against the target using an Avenger power or an Avenger paragon path power and the target is the only enemy adjacent to me, I make two attack rolls and use either result.
Aegis of Ensnarement: Until the mark ends, if the target makes any attack that does not include you as a target, it takes a -2 penalty to the attack roll. If a target marked by this power is within 10 squares of you when it hits with an attack that does not include you as a target, you can use an immediate reaction after the target's entire attack is resolved to teleport the target to any space adjacent to you. In addition, the target grants combat advantage to all creatures until the end of your next turn. If no unoccupied space exists adjacent to you, you can't use this immediate reaction, and the target doesn't grant combat advantage as the result of this effect.
Acrobat's Boots: Can stand up from prone as a minor action.

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6 months ago  ::  Jan 15, 2013 - 8:06PM #1412
swmabie
Date Joined: Dec 8, 2009
Posts: 8,236
NEXT UP: Senna, Tovar

As Adrian strikes with his flurry of blows, the devil is able to withstand some, but not all, and the man is able to draw it into a more advantageous position.

Mechanics Show

Adrian: Hits on first with help from Human Effort; even though you ignored the push/shift, it still takes 3 extra damage from being adjacent to Tovar.  Misses on second due to concealment.  Hits on third; bloodies the Devil with that attack.

Map Show



Map Notes:
Illumination: Bright Light
Doors: The doors to the cottages are sturdy wood (Strength:16 to break down, or AC 5, Reflex 5, Fortitude 10, 20 hp).
Embankment: This steep, dirt road embankment is Difficult Terrain

Furnishings: The furniture is lightly built & offers no impediment to movement - a moving character simply kicks the furnishings aside.  Furnishings can be used as improvised weapons.  A bed or table flipped on its side (standard action) becomes a low wall, providing cover against attacks across it.
Gardens: These squares are all difficult terrain.
Trees: Squares occupied by tree trunks are impassable but provide cover.  Climbing a tree requires Athletics:10, and creature up a tree gains concealment.
Walls: Fieldstone walls are about 4' high and provide cover against attacks that cross it.  It costs 2 squares of movement to cross a wall.
Well: 15' deep well is surrounded by a low wall (+2 bonus to save vs falling).  Climbing out is difficult (Athletics:20).
Windows: Creatures firing through windows have cover against attacks from the outside.
Fuming Cloud Zones: See Status.

Enemy Knowledge Show

(20) Tar Devil Harriers (medium immortal humanoid, devil, soldier) are demonic-looking things which radiate reddish heat about them.  They each carry a vicious-looking kukri in one hand and, in the other, a tarry-looking ball.

Current Status Show

Status:
12 Adrian (AK,46) {10/39} Status: Bloodied; Used: Surges 6/8, AP 2/2, Oath of Enmity(r), Falcon's Mark, Fury's Advance, Sohei Flurry, AP, Second Wind
12 Senna (AJ,49) {3/45} Status: Slowed/2 Ongoing Fire(save), Bloodied; Used: Surges 6/14, AP 0/2, Villain's Menace
, Sweeping Blow, Inevitable Strike
12 Tovar (AJ,48) {35/40} Status: ; Used: Surges 4/11, AP 2/2, Healing Word 2/2, CD, Shield of Faith, Nimbus of Holy Shielding, Earth's Endurance, Earthen Hail, Stone's Resolve
7 Tar Devil Harrier 1 (AK,49) {??-8} Status: ; Used: Fuming Cloud

7 Tar Devil Harrier 2 (AJ,47) {??-21} Status: Oath, Bloodied; Used: Fuming Cloud
3 Bartok (AK,38) {20/29} Status: ; Used: Surges 1/6, AP 0/2, Preserver's Rebuke, Master's Hand, Blades of Astral Fire
3 Breelana (AK,47) {26/41} Status: ; Used: Surges 2/8, AP 1/2, AP, Piercing Shard 1/2, Vicious Assault

Defensive Buffs:
• Adrian: +3(p)AC (Ba,eont), +2 All Defs(sont)
• Bartok: +3(p)All Defs (eoe)
• Breelana: +3(p)All Defs (eoe)
• Senna: +3(p)All Defs (eoe)
• Tovar: +3(p)AC (Ba,eont)

Other Stuff:
Fuming Cloud Zone (AH-AJ,46-48) & (AJ-AL,48-50): Creatures in Zone gain Concealment.  Creatures that end turn in Zone take 2 fire damage.  Zone is Difficult Terrain. (End of Encounter.)
Help improve the Forums: Learn some Logic!
A handy dandy list of fallacies: Which have you just committed? Show

• Ad Hominem — Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument.
Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack) — Insulting the person, not addressing the argument.
• Ad Hominem Tu Quoque — Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument.
Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition — Using emotion instead of Fact.
Bandwagon — Use of peer pressure.
• Begging the Question — Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to.
Biased Sample — Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole.
• Burden of Proof — Shifting it to the wrong side.
• Circumstantial Ad Hominem — Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument.
• Composition — Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts.
• Confusing Cause & Effect — Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction.
• Division — Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole.
• False Dilemma — Assuming that only two options exist.
• Gambler's Fallacy — Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances
• Genetic — Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim.
• Guilt by Association — Attacking others who agree with the claim.
• Hasty Generalization — Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size.
• Ignoring the Common Cause — Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things.
• Middle Ground — Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct.
• Misleading Vividness — Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence.
• Poisoning the Well — Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument.
• Post Hoc — Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first.
• Questionable Cause — Assuming that one thing causes another.
• Red Herring — Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion.
• Relativist Fallacy — Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker.
• Slippery Slope — Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another.
• Special Pleading — Claiming exemption without justification.
• Spotlight — Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole.
• Straw Man — Misrepresenting the opposing argument.
• Two Wrongs Make a Right — Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.

Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video Game Show

Jan 12, 2013 -- 1:49PM, Rogue_Elendae wrote:

Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play.  As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.

In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills.  You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end.  Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear.  Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.

Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created.  Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting.  Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point.  But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.

In WoW, you choose a class and you're done.  No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one.  There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class.  No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it.  You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do.  It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.

Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them.  Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is.  Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc.  All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point.  Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection.  Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.



Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be Inclusive Show

Mar 31, 2013 -- 8:40PM, Emerikol wrote:

I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game.   I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable.   DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games.  I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.

Having said that.  I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires.  It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective.   I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.

Do a lot of you feel this way?

Just for clarification...here are some examples...
1.  Alignment restrictions as an option.
2.  Alignment Mechanics
3.  Martial healing
4.  Races being included or not.

and so forth.  Thoughts?


Mar 31, 2013 -- 9:43PM, Authw8 wrote:

I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.

I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.

The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.

I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.

In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.


Why D&D will continue to fail economically. Show

Apr 22, 2013 -- 12:40AM, Mand12 wrote:

Mobile/tablet is not supported by WotC.  They're stuck in the past, with no coherent vision of how technology could benefit their product.

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 23, 2013 - 10:33AM #1413
Orbin
Date Joined: Feb 9, 2007
Posts: 3,281
Tovar swings his hammer at the wounded devil, but the cloud obscures his vision and he misses.  He then takes a step back, out of the clouds.

Mechanics Show
Standard Action: Burden of Earth vs Tar Devil Harrier 2
  Attack: Burden of Earth vs Tar Devil Harrier 2 (AC Attack, Concealment) (1d20+8-2=12) MISS
  Effect: The next time you or an ally attacks the target before the end of your next turn, that character gains a +1 power bonus to the attack roll

Move Action: Shift to AI,49


Combat Stat Block Show
AC: 20 Fort: 17 Reflex: 14 Will: 17
HP: 40/40
Bloodied Value: 20
Healing Surges Used: 4/11
Surge Value: 10
Initiative Modifier: +1
Status:
Other Relevant Information:
* Earth Domain Feature: You and each ally within 5 squares gain +2 power bonus to saves vs Ongoing Damage.
* +1 healing done with powers that allow an ally to spend a surge (healer's broach +1) 
* +5 save vs Poison
* Save vs knock prone
* Reduce forced movement by 1 square
* Whenever Tovar hit with his hammer each ally he can see may stand up as a free action.
Action Points Used: 2/2

[] Dwarven Resiliance / Second Wind
[] Subterranean Survivor
[X][X] Healing Word
[X] Channel Divinity
[]
Stone Speak
[X]
Earthen Hall
[] Granite Shield
[X] Nimbus of Holy Shielding
[X] Shield of Faith




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5 months ago  ::  Jan 26, 2013 - 1:11AM #1414
Pashalik_Mons
Date Joined: May 17, 2009
Posts: 7,102
Senna directs her rage unto the devil, and her axe crashes home.
mechanics Show


Standard: Brash Strike on dumb-face enemy man, marking.
Attack Roll: 1d20+11=26
Damage Roll: 1d12+11=22

Stat Block Show


AC: 19
Fort: 17
Ref: 11 
Will: 12
 
HP: 29/45
Surges: 10/14
Surge Value: 11
AP: 1/1

MBA: +9 vs AC, 1d12+7 damage
+1 bonus on Opportunity Attacks

Cleave
Brash Strike
Pass Forward
Stand(minor)
[] Hack and Hew
[x] Sweeping Blow
[x] Inevitable Strike
[] Incredible Toughness
[] Second Wind
[] Action Point
[x] Villain's Menace 




Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven.  You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner


4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 29, 2013 - 8:07PM #1415
swmabie
Date Joined: Dec 8, 2009
Posts: 8,236
NEXT UP: Rest, and debriefing

The devils, caught in their own traps, slash at their primary tormentors with runic silver daggers, but neither is able to penetrate their enemy's defenses.  Both attempt to re-position.  Both are skewered by their nearby enemies before they can even take a step.

As this particular skirmish winds down, the heroes senses extend beyond the immediate area.  The telltale clash of weapon against armor has died down; while there are the occasional raised voices, they seem to be more concordance than confrontation.  Looking around, beyond the nearby farmhouses, with the exception of the occasional prisoners, only one army remains standing.

The Battle of Albridge is over.

The rebel alliance has won, decisively.

A messenger comes up, shortly thereafter, and informs them that Dar Gremath would like to see them, once their wounds have been tended; he is in his headquarters at the stables.

Mechanics Show

Tovar: Misses.

Senna: Hits, marks, and Bloodies TDH1; takes 2 fire damage from ending turn in Zone.

Tar Devil Harrier 1:
Standard: Kukri @ Senna — 11 vs AC misses
Move: Walk to...
Senna: Opportunity: 20 vs AC hits for 15 hp damage.  Tar Devil Harrier 1 is Deceased.

Tar Devil Harrier 2:
Standard: Kukri @ Adrian — 17 vs AC misses.
Move: Walk to ....
Breelana: Opportunity: 27 vs AC hits for 14 cold damage
Adrian: Opportunity: 23 vs AC (I forgot concealment) crits for 12 hp damage.  Tar Devil Harrier is Deceased.

Combat is Over.  You may go now in peace....

Current Status Show

Status:
12 Adrian (AK,46) {10/39} Status: Bloodied; Used: Surges 6/8, AP 2/2, Oath of Enmity(r), Falcon's Mark, Fury's Advance, Sohei Flurry, AP, Second Wind
12 Tovar (AI,49) {35/40} Status: ; Used: Surges 4/11, AP 2/2, Healing Word 2/2, CD, Shield of Faith, Nimbus of Holy Shielding, Earth's Endurance, Earthen Hail, Stone's Resolve
12 Senna (AJ,49) {1/45} Status: Bloodied; Used: Surges 6/14, AP 0/2, Villain's Menace, Sweeping Blow, Inevitable Strike
7 Tar Devil Harrier 1 (AK,49) {??-45} Status: Mark(S,eont), Bloodied; Used: Fuming Cloud
7 Tar Devil Harrier 2 (AJ,47) {??-47} Status: Oath, Bloodied; Used: Fuming Cloud
3 Bartok (AK,38) {20/29} Status: ; Used: Surges 1/6, AP 0/2, Preserver's Rebuke, Master's Hand, Blades of Astral Fire
3 Breelana (AK,47) {26/41} Status: ; Used: Surges 2/8, AP 1/2, AP, Piercing Shard 1/2, Vicious Assault

Defensive Buffs:
• Adrian: +3(p)AC (Ba,eont), +2 All Defs(sont)
• Bartok: +3(p)All Defs (eoe)
• Breelana: +3(p)All Defs (eoe)
• Senna: +3(p)All Defs (eoe)
• Tovar: +3(p)AC (Ba,eont)

Other Stuff:
Fuming Cloud Zone (AH-AJ,46-48) & (AJ-AL,48-50): Creatures in Zone gain Concealment.  Creatures that end turn in Zone take 2 fire damage.  Zone is Difficult Terrain. (End of Encounter.)
Help improve the Forums: Learn some Logic!
A handy dandy list of fallacies: Which have you just committed? Show

• Ad Hominem — Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument.
Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack) — Insulting the person, not addressing the argument.
• Ad Hominem Tu Quoque — Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument.
Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition — Using emotion instead of Fact.
Bandwagon — Use of peer pressure.
• Begging the Question — Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to.
Biased Sample — Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole.
• Burden of Proof — Shifting it to the wrong side.
• Circumstantial Ad Hominem — Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument.
• Composition — Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts.
• Confusing Cause & Effect — Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction.
• Division — Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole.
• False Dilemma — Assuming that only two options exist.
• Gambler's Fallacy — Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances
• Genetic — Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim.
• Guilt by Association — Attacking others who agree with the claim.
• Hasty Generalization — Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size.
• Ignoring the Common Cause — Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things.
• Middle Ground — Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct.
• Misleading Vividness — Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence.
• Poisoning the Well — Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument.
• Post Hoc — Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first.
• Questionable Cause — Assuming that one thing causes another.
• Red Herring — Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion.
• Relativist Fallacy — Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker.
• Slippery Slope — Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another.
• Special Pleading — Claiming exemption without justification.
• Spotlight — Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole.
• Straw Man — Misrepresenting the opposing argument.
• Two Wrongs Make a Right — Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.

Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video Game Show

Jan 12, 2013 -- 1:49PM, Rogue_Elendae wrote:

Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play.  As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.

In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills.  You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end.  Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear.  Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.

Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created.  Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting.  Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point.  But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.

In WoW, you choose a class and you're done.  No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one.  There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class.  No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it.  You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do.  It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.

Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them.  Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is.  Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc.  All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point.  Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection.  Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.



Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be Inclusive Show

Mar 31, 2013 -- 8:40PM, Emerikol wrote:

I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game.   I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable.   DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games.  I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.

Having said that.  I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires.  It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective.   I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.

Do a lot of you feel this way?

Just for clarification...here are some examples...
1.  Alignment restrictions as an option.
2.  Alignment Mechanics
3.  Martial healing
4.  Races being included or not.

and so forth.  Thoughts?


Mar 31, 2013 -- 9:43PM, Authw8 wrote:

I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.

I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.

The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.

I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.

In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.


Why D&D will continue to fail economically. Show

Apr 22, 2013 -- 12:40AM, Mand12 wrote:

Mobile/tablet is not supported by WotC.  They're stuck in the past, with no coherent vision of how technology could benefit their product.

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5 months ago  ::  Jan 31, 2013 - 4:45PM #1416
Orbin
Date Joined: Feb 9, 2007
Posts: 3,281
Tovar smiles at the messenger and tells him that they will be along shortly.

Turning to the group he smiles again and says, "Good job all.  Today we have won a great victory."

Tovar spends the next few minutes chckig over the groups wounds.

Short Rest(s?) Show
Any issue with using multiple short rests to regain use of my Healing Words?

Tovar will spend a surge during the short rest.
 
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5 months ago  ::  Jan 31, 2013 - 7:44PM #1417
Brys
Date Joined: Jan 10, 2008
Posts: 4,539
Fr. Bartok takes a deep breath and leans heavily on his staff.  He quietly clears his throat and pulls himself up to his full height.  It would not do to show weakness in front of the help.  Before you know it, they will be asking for time off and complaining about carrying my bags.  I do not want to have to listen to more of that.

"Yes.  Of course he wants to see us in the stable."  The priest is unable to prevent his eyes from rolling.  Maybe next time they would be able to help out a royal with plush accomodations, rather than another flea ridden swamp.  Bartok scratches at his neck.  I hate fleas.
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5 months ago  ::  Feb 01, 2013 - 8:38AM #1418
jrmabie
Date Joined: Nov 14, 2010
Posts: 4,739
Breelana's eyes are still tinged with red as the entity hovers near the surface of her mind.  He seemed satiated for the moment, but the eladrin knew it would not last.  Her sword faded away and she sheathed her rod at her side.  She waits for the others to move out, arms crossed firmly over her breast as if she could hold the beast within by physical force.
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5 months ago  ::  Feb 02, 2013 - 9:09PM #1419
TheWalrus42
Date Joined: Jan 10, 2012
Posts: 974
Adrian stays on guard after the devils are dealt with, expecting (and somewhat hoping for) the return of the enemy commander, but to no avail. The coward fled for good, probably to find new henchmen to try his schemes again elsewhere. "It's a shame the coward leader got away," Adrian muses to himself, sheathing his sword at the sight of the friendly messenger. "He would have been a very satisfying kill." He nods to Tovar when the dwarf praises them.

Mechanics Show

Spend my last 2 surges to reach 28 hp.
 
Stat Block Show
Adrian d'Arcangeli
Male Good Human Hybrid Avenger|Swordmage, 3rd Lvl 
Theme: Sohei    Deity: Corellon
Vitals: Medium, 6' tall, 175 lbs.
66 years old, hails from Harken
Languages: Common, Primordial
Senses: 19 Insight, 
19 Perception, 
Normal Vision
Encounter Powers 
[_] Second Wind
[_] Sohei Flurry
[_] Heroic Effort
[_]* Oath of Enmity
[_]* Aegis of Ensnarement
[_] Falcon's Mark
[_] Avenger's Resolve
[_] Fury's Advance 
[_] Southern Star Ring the Bell
[_] Five Stars Arrow Deflection 
Daily Powers 
[X][X] Action Point
[_] Aspect of Might

HP:
HS: 
AC:
Fort:
Ref:
Will:
Core
39
8
21
14
16
16
RndX
28
0

THP
Surge: 9hp
Init: +2
Speed: 6
Resist: none 
Saves: none

*In-effect*
Oath of Enmity: Against enemies subject to this oath, when I make a melee attack against the target using an Avenger power or an Avenger paragon path power and the target is the only enemy adjacent to me, I make two attack rolls and use either result.
Aegis of Ensnarement: Until the mark ends, if the target makes any attack that does not include you as a target, it takes a -2 penalty to the attack roll. If a target marked by this power is within 10 squares of you when it hits with an attack that does not include you as a target, you can use an immediate reaction after the target's entire attack is resolved to teleport the target to any space adjacent to you. In addition, the target grants combat advantage to all creatures until the end of your next turn. If no unoccupied space exists adjacent to you, you can't use this immediate reaction, and the target doesn't grant combat advantage as the result of this effect.
Acrobat's Boots: Can stand up from prone as a minor action.

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5 months ago  ::  Feb 06, 2013 - 2:59AM #1420
Pashalik_Mons
Date Joined: May 17, 2009
Posts: 7,102
Senna is clearly frustrated, despite the total rout of enemy forces.  She punches the air and curses under her breath that Nazin escaped with his hide.  
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven.  You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner


4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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