In the role of Controller: • Helsa "Hel" Eumenides, Shadar-Kai Mercenary Bladesinger, as played by jrmabie
In the role of Defender: • Alain, Longtooth Arena Weaponmaster, as played by ff6shadow • Vitya Stas, Dwarf Outlaw Guardian Weaponmaster, as played by Brys
In the role of Leader: • Path Between, Deva Scholar Stalker Shaman, as played by Rich_The_Mad
In the role of Striker: • Euthyphro "Ewey" Eumenides (2), Shadar-Kai Emissary Scout, as played by Scyner • Heskan, Dragonborn Firecrafter Fire Elementalist, as played by Orbin
Previous Participants: • Durmindin (DECEASED), Wilden Explorer Swarm Druid, as played by Orbin • Euthyphro "Ewey" Eumenides, Shadar-Kai Emissary Executioner, as played by Lepidus • Elaine Delore, Human Leader (Templar of Kord), a Companion Character • Tal'Barraka, Bugbear Rageblood Barbarian, once played by Harn_Winterfell • Chant, Tiefling Cunning Bard, once played by Krika • Pelloth Faen Tlabbar, Drow Artful Scoundrel, once played by Joe_Puff74 • Senol Rach, Human Paladin of Bane, once played by Guest689870068 • Tiral Bantas, Eladrin Cunning Scoundrel, once played by LarryTheGuard Okay. Once again borrowing heavily from ff6shadow....
Alrighty then.
First and foremost, nobody post any comments here until all character sheets have been posted - if necessary, post OOC stuff in sblocks in the IC thread until y'all have done so. I'd like to have them all lined up in a row, for quick finding. Please remember to make one final pass at them now and ensure that they are correct and how you want them.
Second, I will be opening the IC thread shortly. Until you have posted your finalized sheet here, you are not cleared to post IC.
Thirdly, after this coming weekend (due to the holiday), I would like to see every other day posting. If you have nothing to say in character (or your turn hasn't arrived in combat yet), please at least mention something in the OOC or discuss the game so far. If someone has not taken their turn in combat within the 48 hour limit, I will NPC that character. As a general rule when NPCing a character, they take the most obvious actions, using at-wills (excepting leaders; I will heal if the party needs it).
Fourth, if anyone has not posted there character sheet by June, I will start considering replacements.
Fifth, and finally, since we are giving the holiday weekend for everyone to do stuff, the IC thread can be your trip from the Vale down to Restwell. Do it however you wish - the timeline at this point is vague, so you can even flashback and flashforward, as needed.
Alright, lets get these character sheets posted and this show on the road.
• Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack)— Insulting the person, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Tu Quoque— Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument. • Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition— Using emotion instead of Fact. • Bandwagon— Use of peer pressure. • Begging the Question— Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to. • Biased Sample— Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole. • Burden of Proof— Shifting it to the wrong side. • Circumstantial Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument. • Composition— Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts. • Confusing Cause & Effect— Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction. • Division— Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole. • False Dilemma— Assuming that only two options exist. • Gambler's Fallacy— Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances • Genetic— Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim. • Guilt by Association— Attacking others who agree with the claim. • Hasty Generalization— Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size. • Ignoring the Common Cause— Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things. • Middle Ground— Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct. • Misleading Vividness— Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence. • Poisoning the Well— Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument. • Post Hoc— Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first. • Questionable Cause— Assuming that one thing causes another. • Red Herring— Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion. • Relativist Fallacy— Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker. • Slippery Slope— Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another. • Special Pleading— Claiming exemption without justification. • Spotlight— Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole. • Straw Man— Misrepresenting the opposing argument. • Two Wrongs Make a Right— Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.
Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video GameShow
Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play. As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.
In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills. You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end. Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear. Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.
Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created. Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting. Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point. But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.
In WoW, you choose a class and you're done. No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one. There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class. No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it. You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do. It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.
Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them. Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is. Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc. All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point. Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection. Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.
Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be InclusiveShow
I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game. I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable. DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games. I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.
Having said that. I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires. It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective. I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.
Do a lot of you feel this way?
Just for clarification...here are some examples... 1. Alignment restrictions as an option. 2. Alignment Mechanics 3. Martial healing 4. Races being included or not.
I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.
I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.
The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.
I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.
In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.
Tiral was born as one of the sons of a minor noble family among one of the great eladrin cities of the feywild. One of the younger sons, he enjoyed very little expectations from his family and the duties of his house were not so heavily impressed on him as they were to his elder siblings. While he could not bear to stay in one place for so long, Tiral remembers his home fondly and takes the effort to send message back to his elder sister when his adventures are done.
This freedom allowed Tiral to grow up with a more objective outlook on both the eladrin society he grew up in and those of the mortal plane he would visit on occasion. He quickly grew cynical towards both. Although he greets the world with as pleasent a demeanor as he can muster, there is no doubt in Tiral's mind that it is a brutish place.
Most recently the eladrin has been seen around Green River Bend
Age: 85 Height: 5'7'' Weight: 144lbs Tiral has pale violet eyes and unlike many eladrin wears his hair cut short under a simple leather helm. His physique tends towards the smaller and leaner side. He has a habit of keeping his sling wrapped loosely around one arm.
[]Second Wind []Skip the Rock []Fey Step []Scattering Shot [] []Firestorm Arrow +1
''So this knife is very good at separating the flesh from the bone and severing the tendons...'' Do you have to say it like that? ''Well, how else am I supposed to say it?'' I don't know...you could say "it's good for butchering." ''When did the word "butchery" become a euphemism?''
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ====== Durmindin, level 3 Wilden, Druid Primal Aspect: Primal Swarm Hardy Form: Hardy Form Reflex Background: Occupation - Hunter (Stealth class skill)
FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 12, Con 18, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 8.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 12, Con 16, Dex 12, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.
+2 feat bonus to will. In addition, if you are dazed or stunned, youcan make a saving throw at the start of your tunr to end that effecct, even if the effect doesn't normally end on a save.
You can tell which way is north. You gain a +5 bonus to any skill check to avoid becoming lost, find your way to a specific location, or spot a distant landmark.
Effect: You move up to your speed, ignoring difficult terrain. Until the end of your next turn, you gain a +2 bonus to AC and Reflex if you are in difficult terrain, and you gain combat advantage against enemies that are in difficult terrain.
Standard Action Close blast 3 Target: Each creature in blast Attack: +7 vs. Reflex Hit: 1d8 + 5 modifier damage. Effect: The blast creates a zone of swarming locusts that lasts until the end of your next turn. While within the zone, enemies grant combat advantage.
Standard Action Melee touch Target: One creature Attack: +7 vs. Reflex Hit: 1d8 + 5 modifier damage, and you slide the target 1 square. Special: This power can be used as a melee basic attack.
Standard Action Close burst 1 Target: Each creature in burst Attack: +7 vs. Reflex Hit: 2d6 + 5 modifier damage. You take half damage from all melee attacks and ranged attacks until the end of your next turn.
Standard Action Close burst 1 Target: Each enemy in burst you can see Attack: +7 vs. Reflex Hit: 1d6 + 5 modifier damage, and the target is dazed and slowed (save ends both). Miss: Half damage, and the target is slowed until the end of your next turn.
Daily Primal Minor ActionMelee 1 Target: You or one ally Effect: The target gains the following benefit until the end of his or her next extended rest. * +2 power bonus to damage rolls that include the target's strength modifier * +2 power bonus to Athletics checks and strength ability checks * The target's strength increases by +4 for purposes of determining carrying capacity
Standard ActionClose blast 3 Target: Each creature in the blast Attack: +7 vs. Fortitude Hit: 2d6 + 5 damage. Effect: If you hit at least one target, you shift 4 squares to a square in the blast or adjacent to it. Primal Swarm: During the shift, you can move through enemies’ spaces. If you move through the space of a target hit by the attack, that target takes damage equal to your Constitution modifier.
RACIAL POWER (One active at a time): Wilden racial encounter: Voyage of the AncientsShow
Free ActionPersonal Trigger: You hit an enemy with a close or area attack Effect: You teleport 3 squares. Choose a single enemy you hit with the attack. You and one ally you can see gain combat advantage against that enemy until the end of your next turn.
Wilden racial encounter: Wrath of the DestroyerShow
Immediate ReactionPersonal Trigger: A bloodied enemy attacks you or your ally adjacent to you Effect: You either make a melee basic attack against the triggering enemy or charge it. If your attack hits, the enemy is also dazed until the end of your next turn.
Wilden racial encounter: Pursuit of the HunterShow
Immediate ReactionPersonal Trigger: An enemy within 2 squares of you moves on its turn Effect: You shift 3 squares. Until the end of your next turn, you deal 1d6 extra damage to the triggering enemy when you hit it, and you don’t take the –2 penalty to attack rolls for attacking it when it has cover or concealment.
Power (Daily): Immediate Reaction. Trigger: An enemy adjacent to you shifts. Effect: You shift 1 square. If you’re in beast form, you instead shift 3 squares.
Critical: +1d6 damage per plus, plus 1d6 extra damage against a target that is granting combat advantage to you.
Power (Daily): Free Action. Trigger: You bloody an enemy with an attack. Effect: That enemy grants combat advantage to you (save ends).
CASH: GP: 318.89
RITUALS Animal Messenger, Comrades' Succor, Make Whole, Investigators Kit ====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
+5 hp, +1 to defenses, +1 to attack, Gain power Bear's Strength, gain feat Superior Will (+2 will + save at begining of turn on Stun/Daze even if not normally save end condition)
AC: 15 Fort: 15 Reflex: 14 Will: 18 HP: 40/40 Bloodied Value: 17 Healing Surges Used: 0/11 Surge Value: 8 Initiative Modifier: +2 Status: Other Relevant Information: * Current Aspect: Aspect of the Hunter * Current form: Wilden (normal) * While in beast form, reduce the damage I take from melee and ranged attacks by 4 (con) Action Points Used: 0/1
[] Second Wind [] Pursuit of the Hunter [] Scattered Form [] Surefooted Stride [] Flowing Swarm [X] Bear's Endurance [] Savage Frenzy Item Powers: [] Panther Slippers [] Death Fang Totem [] Healing Potion
Durmindin is a hunter. He doesn't recall a time when he wasn't a hunter. In fact, he doesn't know much about who he is. He never had parents, to tell him where he came from, all he can remember is just that one day he just... was.
He became concious in a swamp. There wasn't much around except bugs and vermin. He learned from them and felt a special connection to them and even learned how to transform himself to mimic their way of being. He hunted with them, but was never quite the same as them.
One day a group of adventurers made their way through the swamp, and being curious he obseved them for a while. After a few days his curiosity got the best of him and he presented himself to them. He couldn't speak their language, but through gestures he was able to get the group to understand that he meant them no harm. They took pity upon him and took him with them on their adventure. During his time with the group he learned common and decided that he wanted to be an adventurer.
Durmindin thanked the ones who took him in and set out to find his own adventure. He met up with a group headed to Restwell Keep.
While in humaniod form Durmindin is your tipical adult Wilden. His skin is brown and barky and his "hair/fur" is made up of lush green leaves and he has eyes the color of emerald. His leaves appear in intricate patterns accross his body.
While Durmindin can choose any beast form he wishes, he often appears as many small swarming creatures. Some of the standard forms he uses are wasps and snakes. In either case the creatures he appears as oftern share his browna and green coloring.
Durmindin can be a very quiet, almost shy, individual. In battle he can be fierce.
Durmindin was curious about a group of adventureres he saw. He eventually approached them and befreinded them. From being with them he decided that he wanted to be an adventurer.
6. Which family member or friends do you hold most dear?Show
Durmindin does not know his family and has no real close friends. It takes a while for him to befriend anyone.
7. What people, groups, or objects hold your greatest loyalty?Show
Nature and all living creatures. Durmindin values the natural world and will fight to protect it.
8. What career do you want 1 year from now? 5 years?Show
1 year: Adventurer. 5 years: Adventurer. Durmindin sees the good aventureres can do and wishes to be one so he can make a difference.
8. Preference in method of dealing with absent players.Show
As long as everyone is ok with it I think that NPCing a character is the best way to deal with it.
9. What three gaming moments would you like to recreate in this campaign?Show
not too sure on this one... I always enjoy doing heroic things. Saving people from a big nasty who has subjugated a town, resucing people from slavers, etc.
Edited to add healing potion that Senol had. Added learned ritual. Updated to level 2 and added gold earned (96.66) Updated to level 3. Added Deathfang Totem.
Weapon Master's Strike At-Will – Martial, Weapon Standard Action – Melee Weapon Target: One creature Attack: +8 vs. AC Hit: 1d10+4 damage Weapon (Axe): Deal additional damage equal to your constitution modifier (+1) Weapon (Mace): Slide the target 1 square Weapon (Heavy Blade): Until the end of your next turn, gain a +1 power bonus to AC against the targets attacks. Weapon (Spear or Polearm): Until the end of your next turn, the target provokes opportunity attacks from you when it shifts
Cleave At-Will - Martial, Weapon Standard Action – Melee Weapon Target: One creature Attack: +8 vs. AC Hit: 1d10+4 damage an an enemy adjacent to you other than the target takes damage equal to your Strength modifier (+3),
Hack and Hew Encounter - Invigorating, Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee Weapon Target: One creature AttacK: +8 vs. AC Hit: 1d10+4 damage. Effect: Make a secondary attack Secondary Target: Once creature other than the primary target. Attack: +8 vs. AC Hit: 1d10+4 damage.
Rain of Blows Encounter - Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee Weapon Target: One Creature Attack: +8 vs. AC, two attacks Hit: 1d10+1 damage Weapon: If I am wielding a flail, light blade, or spear and have a Dex of 15 or higher, make a third attack against the target or another creature.
Centered Flurry of Blows Encounter - Psionic Free Action - Melee 1 Trigger: You hit an enemy with an attack on your turn Target: One creature Effect: The target takes additional damage equal to 2 + your Wisdom modifier (+3) and you slide it one square adjacent to you, or 1 square in any direction if the target wasn't hit by the triggering attack. Special: You caqn only use this power once per round.
Longtooth Shifting Encounter - Healing Minor Action - Personal Requirement: You must be bloodied Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls. In addition, while you are bloodied, you gain Regeneration 2.
Villain's Menace Daily - Martial, Weapon Standard Action - Melee Weapon Target: One enemy Attack: +8 vs. AC Damage: 2d10+4 damage and you gain a +2 power bonus to attack rolls and a +4 power bonus to damage rolls against the target until the end of the encounter. Miss: you gain a +1 power bonus to attack rolls and a +2 power bonus to damage rolls against the target until the end of the encounter.
Pass Forward At-Wiill * Martial Move Action * Personal Effect: You pick an adjacent enemy then move your speed. As long as you end this movement in a square adjacent to that ebnemy, your movement does not provoke opportunity attacks from that enemy.
Weapon of Myrdoon's Shard At-Will * Lighting, Item Standard Action * Personal Effect: Make a melee basic attack with this weapon with a reach one greater than normal. All damage dealt by this attack is lightning damage.
Weapon of Myrdoon's Shard Daily * Lightning, Item Free Action * Personal Trigger: You hit a creature with this weapon Effect: Push the target 2 squares then deal 1d8 lightning damage to the target and every creature adjacent to it.
[]Second Wind []Hack and Hew []Rain of Blows []Centered Flurry of Blows []Longtooth Shifting []Villain's Menace[]Weapon of Myrdoon's Shard (Daily)Other Relevant Combat InformationShow
Combat Challenge - Mark foes you attack. They get a -2 penalty to attaqcks against targets other than you. Make a melee basic attack against the target if it shifts or makes an attack not including you.
Combat Superiority - Gain a bonus to opportunity attack rols equal to your wisdom modifier (+3). If you hit an opponent with an opportunity attack, the movement ends.
Fighter Talent (Arena Training) - Gain proficiency with the Greatbow and Greatspear. Gain a +1 bonus to AC when in light armor. Gain proficiency and increased damage with improvised weapons.
Coming in at 6'6" and only about a hundred seventy pounds, Alain's thin and wirey appearance hides his reasonable strength as well as his excellent agility and speed. Despite some success as a caravan guard, he favors simple clothing, typically donning plain brown pants and a simple white shirt. Preparing for battle, he ties his brown hair back and dons a flexible suit of armor made from dragonscales that was originally worn by his father. Despite the armors great age, it can still shimmer in the light after a good polishing.
Alain grew up in the city of Fallcrest, the second child of two veteran adventurers. Unlike his younger brother and older sister, who settled in town near their parents, Alain took after his parents. As soon as he came of age, he convinced his father to part with an old family suit of armor and his mother an old spear, then left town to seek his own fortune and make a name for himself.
Despite his aspirations and hopes, Alian quickly discovered that fame and fortune are difficult to come by and has spent the majority of the last two years practicing his mother's unique fighting styles anbd working as a caravan guard to keep food on the plate and a bed beneath him.
1. Describe yourself in ten words or less. A guy just figuring out how difficult life can be.
2. What is your greatest strength? Bravery in the face of danger.
3. What is your greatest weakness? Overconfidence
4. What is your most distinguishing feature? HIs armor, a suit of hide armor made from dragonscales. It was a gift from his father before he set out to make a name for himself.
5. Why did you choose an adventuring life? TO folow in his mother's and father's footsteps
6. Which family member or friends do you hold most dear? His older sister, who often shielded him from other children when they made fun of him for his unusual height and low weight.
7. What people, groups, or objects hold your greatest loyalty? Family. Family comes before everything,
8. What career do you want 1 year from now? 5 years? 1 year - A renowned adventurer 5 years - A retired adventurer, running either a small tavern or a nice little school for up and coming adventurers
9. What place do you wish to visit? None in particular
10. How did you aquire your skills? He was taught his skills by his mother, which are an unique fighting style invpolving large sweeping slashes and thrusts with a spear, polearm, or staff.
11. What do you like to do when you're not adventuring or training? Relaxed and laid back.
12. What magic items do you crave? Protective geart as well as objects with unusual effects.
13. Where do you enjoy hanging out? The local tavern, swapping stories with others.
14. How do you want people to remember you after your death? As a great hero
5. Any session location request or preferenes? A battle on two flying structures of some kind, which bridges and such between them, would be fun. An assault on a stronghold could potentialy be interesting as well
6. When can you play each week? N/A
7. Preferred method of contact. PM
8. Preference in method of dealing with absent players. NPC them
+1 level +6 HP New Power - Rain of Blows Retrain -Master at Arms (feat) to Hafted Defense (feat) Feat change reduces attack rolls by 1 and adds +1 to AC/Reflex
http://community.wizards.com/play-by-post_haven
The Play-by-Post recruitment hub for the forums. Stop by, join us, and sign up for some games while you are there
At-Will - Conjuration, Primal Minor Action - Close burst 20
Effect: You conjure your spirit companion in an unoccupied square in the burst. The spirit lasts until you fall unconscious, until you dismiss it as a minor action, or until you use this power again. The spirit occupies 1 square. Enemies cannot move through its space, but allies can. When you take a move action, you can also move the spirit a number of squares equal to your speed.
The spirit can be targeted by melee or ranged attacks, although it lacks hit points. If a single melee or ranged attack deals damage to the spirit equal to 10 + one-half your level or higher, the spirit disappears, and you take damage equal to 5 + one- half your level. Otherwise, the spirit is unaffected by the attack.
Encounter (Special) - Healing, Primal Minor Action - Close burst 5
Target: You or one ally in burst
Effect: The target can spend a healing surge. If the target does so, one ally adjacent to your spirit companion, other than the target, regains 1d6 hit points.
Special: You can use this power twice per encounter, but only once per round. At 16th level, you can use this power three times per encounter, but only once per round.
At-Will - Implement, Primal, Spirit Opportunity Action - Melee spirit 1 Trigger: An enemy leaves a square adjacent to your spirit companion without shifting
Target: The triggering enemy Attack: +6 vs. Reflex
At-Will - Primal, Spirit Standard Action - Melee spirit 1
Target: One creature
Effect: One ally adjacent to your spirit companion or within 3 squares of you can make a basic attack against the target. If the ally’s attack hits, the target grants combat advantage until the end of your next turn.
EncounterImplement, Primal Standard ActionRanged 5
Target: One creature Attack: +6 vs. Reflex Stalker Spirit: If the target is bloodied, you gain a bonus to the attack roll equal to your Intelligence modifier (+4).
Hit: 1d8 + 5 damage. Until the end of your next turn, you and your allies have combat advantage when making melee attacks against any enemy adjacent to your spirit companion. Effect: Make the attack one more time against the same target or a different one.
Daily - Healing, Implement, Primal Standard Action - Close burst 5
Target: Each enemy in burst Attack: +6 vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d8 + 5 damage. Miss: Half damage. Effect: Until the end of the encounter, you and each ally in the burst gain regeneration 2 while bloodied. As a minor action, a character can end this effect on himself or herself to regain 10 hit points.
Path Between has served Melora since time immemorial. Throughout eons, his ancestral duties have been as a broker of good will between Melora and the Primal Spirits. As the diety most comfortable with the Primal Spirits in general, she has used Path
Between as an emmissary to respond to common threats and commune with the spirits and nature on the natural world. As a result, the primal spirits afford Melora more contact with the natural world than most divine forces.
This relationship is tied directly to her power over life, the seas, and the wilderness in general. Melora's long-term goal is to revoke the primal spirits ban on divine presence in the world and usher in an age where the two forces act in concert. One of the major stepping stones she, and Path Between, have been working on for ages is convincing and preparing for a visit of the primal spirits to Avandor in the Astral Sea.
In his current manifestation, Path Between has just recieved his first summons by the diety. She has recieved news of evil tainting the natural world, in the form of abberrations and otherwise, near the site of a massive meteor impact. She has called on Path Between to answer his ancestral duties, and has promised that his relationship with the spirits will only grow stronger the deeper the cleanse.
Path Between's appearence is unique to most Devas in he is predominantly green with white markings, rather than a shade of blue or black. The white tracings of his body seem organic, and resemble growing vines rather than arcane or religious rune-shapes. He wears simple leathers created from his hunts in the wilds before his calling in stark contrast to the ornate designs of most Deva armor.
Like most members of his race, every action of Path Between is purposeful. He does not figit and his eyes do not wander, they scan his surroundings intently. His personality, cultivated in wild isolation with mostly spirits for company, is not well suited to humanoid civilization. Though he holds large civilization with disdain, he is not openly hostile to such settlement. He is stark and literal.
While he holds all life sacred, he believes in the cycle of life and death and does not hesitate to kill for survival. He does not understand why others would not have a similar reverance for life, and attempts to convert others to his way of thinking.
Besides his mission of peace with the primal spirits, Path Between longs to join the Great Hunt in Avandor for at least one of his lives, hunting the abominations of Carceri with the exalted of the wilderness gods.
[]Second Wind [][]Healing Spirit []Speak with Spirits []Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes []Bonds of the Clan []Twin Panthers []Spring Renewal Strike []Spirit of the Healing Flood
Senol Rach grew up in the Green River Bend, in a smaller village; when his family died when he was 11 from a goblin raid, he was taken in by a local priest of Bane, where he studied and learned the creed of "the greater good."
He has worked as an enforcer for a local loan shark, though he always felt he was meant for bigger things. His goal in life is to spread the word of Bane and civilization, and also to rule over a kingdom himself, as to be a living example of the "protective iron fist."
Senol is a believer of doing whatever is needed for the greater good. He will do evil things if the end result would be ultimately good, but lament "that it had to come to this." But he will explore other options first.
He has a holy symbol, the three-clawed symbol of Bane that he made out of scrap metal and partially melted. While it's not a great work of art, it is of some quality and was enchanted by the person that hired him.
Senol also has a habit of fiddling with his flail absentmindedly.
Starting and final ability scores net change: +2 CON, +1 DEX FINAL ABILITY SCORES Str 18, Con 18, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8.
STARTING ABILITY SCORES Str 16, Con 16, Dex 11, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 8.
New Feat: Dwarven Weapon Training (+2 damage, proficiency with axes) Level 2 Utility: Full Extension (minor/encounter - next melee weapon attack has +1 reach)
Vitya Stas is the consumate dwarven fighter. He carries a gleaming new battleaxe while wearing very workman-like plate armor. His equipment is unadorned though it is obviously of sturdy quality and well cared for. Vitya's helm has nose and cheek guards while sporting a red mohawked mane on top. When he removes his helm, his skin is tanned and weathered where it is unprotected by the helm, pasty white and soft where unprotected. His head is shaved except for his red-haired mohawk that matches the outside of the helm. His cheeks are clean shaven while his beard is split into two braids that are tucked into his armor. Dark eyes peer at your from beneath a hedgerow of red wiry eyebrows.
Vitya Stas and his sister Gloria were orphaned at a young age after a mine collapse. As all dwarven orphans in the Redrock clan, they were taken in as part of the King's extended family. There are no royal privileges that come with being in the king's family since in dwarven society the king is the First Servent to the clan. Vitya was trained with the military but was given a rare role to play. He was made a BlackAxe. The BlackAxe is a small set of dwarves that are expected to work in the best interest of dwarven society even if means acting outisde of what dwarven society finds publically acceptable behavior. They are not above assassination, poisoning, acts of genocide. The dwarven public does not know about the existence of the BlackAxes and if any is caught in an act against dwarven laws, they are expected to carry their secret to the grave. Vitya craves the acceptance of the dwarven people, but he avoids other dwarves of his clan as he feels great shame whenever he thinks of the things he has done on their behalf knowing how they would disapprove. He willingly accepted his role though and will continue to do whatever it takes for the greater good of his people.
Effect: Whenever an enemy marked by you is adjacent to you and shifts or makes an attack that does not include you, you can make a melee basic attack against that enemy.
+5 bonus to savings throws against poison Second Wind is a minor action Move 1 less square on forced movement Can make a savings throw to avoid being knocked prone Low-light vision Gain additional 1d10 when you spend your second wind while bloodied (Battleforged Armor)
a) Combat - 8 b) NPC - 7 c) Puzzles - 5 d) Investigation - 6 e) Mystery - 3 (never tried it in PbP - in my table games it always ends up being Sherlock Holmes-ish: the whole mystery revolves around some miniscule detail that we were told real-time months previous with no emphasis, no reminder (despite the fact that it was hours ago to our PCs))
5. Any session location request or preferenes?Show
• Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack)— Insulting the person, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Tu Quoque— Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument. • Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition— Using emotion instead of Fact. • Bandwagon— Use of peer pressure. • Begging the Question— Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to. • Biased Sample— Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole. • Burden of Proof— Shifting it to the wrong side. • Circumstantial Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument. • Composition— Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts. • Confusing Cause & Effect— Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction. • Division— Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole. • False Dilemma— Assuming that only two options exist. • Gambler's Fallacy— Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances • Genetic— Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim. • Guilt by Association— Attacking others who agree with the claim. • Hasty Generalization— Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size. • Ignoring the Common Cause— Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things. • Middle Ground— Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct. • Misleading Vividness— Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence. • Poisoning the Well— Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument. • Post Hoc— Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first. • Questionable Cause— Assuming that one thing causes another. • Red Herring— Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion. • Relativist Fallacy— Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker. • Slippery Slope— Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another. • Special Pleading— Claiming exemption without justification. • Spotlight— Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole. • Straw Man— Misrepresenting the opposing argument. • Two Wrongs Make a Right— Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.
Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video GameShow
Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play. As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.
In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills. You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end. Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear. Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.
Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created. Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting. Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point. But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.
In WoW, you choose a class and you're done. No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one. There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class. No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it. You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do. It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.
Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them. Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is. Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc. All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point. Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection. Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.
Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be InclusiveShow
I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game. I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable. DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games. I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.
Having said that. I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires. It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective. I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.
Do a lot of you feel this way?
Just for clarification...here are some examples... 1. Alignment restrictions as an option. 2. Alignment Mechanics 3. Martial healing 4. Races being included or not.
I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.
I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.
The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.
I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.
In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.
• Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack)— Insulting the person, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Tu Quoque— Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument. • Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition— Using emotion instead of Fact. • Bandwagon— Use of peer pressure. • Begging the Question— Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to. • Biased Sample— Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole. • Burden of Proof— Shifting it to the wrong side. • Circumstantial Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument. • Composition— Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts. • Confusing Cause & Effect— Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction. • Division— Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole. • False Dilemma— Assuming that only two options exist. • Gambler's Fallacy— Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances • Genetic— Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim. • Guilt by Association— Attacking others who agree with the claim. • Hasty Generalization— Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size. • Ignoring the Common Cause— Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things. • Middle Ground— Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct. • Misleading Vividness— Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence. • Poisoning the Well— Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument. • Post Hoc— Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first. • Questionable Cause— Assuming that one thing causes another. • Red Herring— Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion. • Relativist Fallacy— Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker. • Slippery Slope— Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another. • Special Pleading— Claiming exemption without justification. • Spotlight— Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole. • Straw Man— Misrepresenting the opposing argument. • Two Wrongs Make a Right— Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.
Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video GameShow
Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play. As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.
In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills. You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end. Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear. Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.
Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created. Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting. Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point. But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.
In WoW, you choose a class and you're done. No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one. There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class. No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it. You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do. It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.
Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them. Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is. Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc. All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point. Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection. Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.
Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be InclusiveShow
I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game. I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable. DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games. I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.
Having said that. I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires. It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective. I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.
Do a lot of you feel this way?
Just for clarification...here are some examples... 1. Alignment restrictions as an option. 2. Alignment Mechanics 3. Martial healing 4. Races being included or not.
I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.
I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.
The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.
I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.
In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.
I'm going to attempt to set a somewhat steady pace. I'll try to give everyone time to react to stuff as much as possible, but I won't be holding up waiting for everyone to do so either. Please let me know if I'm going too fast or too slow.
• Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's circumstances, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Abusive (Personal Attack)— Insulting the person, not addressing the argument. • Ad Hominem Tu Quoque— Saying the person's inconsistent, not addressing the argument. • Appeal to Authority/Belief/Common Practice/Consequence of a Belief/Emotion/Fear/Flattery/Novelty/Pity/Popularity/Ridicule/Spite/Tradition— Using emotion instead of Fact. • Bandwagon— Use of peer pressure. • Begging the Question— Assuming premises which haven't necessarily been agreed to. • Biased Sample— Using a sampling which may not properly represent the whole. • Burden of Proof— Shifting it to the wrong side. • Circumstantial Ad Hominem— Attacking the person's interests in supporting their argument. • Composition— Assuming that the whole has the same qualities as individual parts. • Confusing Cause & Effect— Assuming that one thing causes another because they appear in conjunction. • Division— Assuming that the individual parts have the same qualities as the whole. • False Dilemma— Assuming that only two options exist. • Gambler's Fallacy— Assuming the odds have changed because of past occurances • Genetic— Assuming a perceived defect in the origin of a claim is proof of a defect in the claim. • Guilt by Association— Attacking others who agree with the claim. • Hasty Generalization— Assuming a quality based on too small a sample size. • Ignoring the Common Cause— Assuming there is no outside cause of two connected things. • Middle Ground— Assuming the midpoint of two extremes must be correct. • Misleading Vividness— Assuming a colorful anecdote outweighs statistical evidence. • Poisoning the Well— Using unprovable claims about the person instead of addressing the argument. • Post Hoc— Assuming that something caused something else simply because it happened first. • Questionable Cause— Assuming that one thing causes another. • Red Herring— Using irrelevant evidence to divert a discussion. • Relativist Fallacy— Asserting that a claim may be true for some but not for the speaker. • Slippery Slope— Assuming the inevitability of one event based on another. • Special Pleading— Claiming exemption without justification. • Spotlight— Assuming individuals that get the most attention to be indicative of the whole. • Straw Man— Misrepresenting the opposing argument. • Two Wrongs Make a Right— Justifying something unethical/immoral as response or pre-emption to something else unethical/immoral.
Response to those who like to compare 4e to a Video GameShow
Also, I find that the "D&D 4e is like an MMO" argument is often a sign of someone who is deliberately being obtuse and/or is potentially ignorant of actual MMO play. As someone who only ended a 6-year World of Warcraft addiction a year ago, I can say that most of your bullet points actually don't match up to the truth of it.
In D&D 4e, you can choose a hybrid, you can choose to play one class as though it were another (people played Warlords as Bards frequently, when the edition first came out, and Rangers were refluffed to Monks), you can focus your class on its secondary role (a Warlock who is more controller than striker, for instance), you can multiclass, and you can create a particular concept (a mounted lancer, a charger, etc.) within the mechanics via feats, choice of powers, and choice of skills. You decide which set of stats you use--are you a Chaladin, Straladin, or Baladin?--and you have ultimate influence on how your character turns out in the end. Yes, powers require you to be using a particular weapon within your class's available selection, but the powers are not themselves tied to the gear. Powers tied to weapons or armor are typically powers that belong to the item, not to the character class that's most likely to use it.
Yes, there are only so many powers available, and these will be what you do in battle; this is all that the designers created. Yes, there is a time-frame in which they can be used; this has always been the case, even in the days of Vancian casting. Yes, there are suggested builds, but you can routinely ignore those if it pleases you; the only parts of a class you have to take are the class features, and even those have options at this point. But the only way that this can be considered at all conflatable with MMO character building/playing is if you are deliberately ignoring all of that.
In WoW, you choose a class and you're done. No multiclassing or hybridization, no way to mimic one class with careful building of a different one. There is a firm dividing line on what is a WoW class. No secondary roles or creative concepts, either; you're going to be what the class sets out to be, and that's it. You'll always have the same stat allocation as another of your class, because you get set numbers as you level up, and you've got at best four options--and that's only the Druid class--to build, and if you plan on running dungeons, particularly heroic level ones, or raiding, you'd better not even think of deviating from the single defined best build on the talent tree for what you want to do. It was only recently, with the complete tear-down and recreation of talent trees for Mists of Pandaria, that there was a concept of there being anything but the one best build that people who calculated such mechanical advantages (the folks on Elitist Jerks, for example), and the people who did things like achieve "World First" at various top-tier raids set precedent for.
Also, no class will ever not have a specific set of powers; all Priests in WoW have the same baseline, with deviation only based upon their talent tree specialization, where a D&D4e player could take whatever power in their class pleases them. Any Retribution Paladin will be the same as any other in terms of powers, because that is what a RetPally is. Any Assassination Rogue will always have the same powers as another, etc. All powers are always on specific cool-downs, but will always be there when they start a battle, where a 4e PC might enter an encounter with only At-Wills, or without their Daily powers due to what plot has done up until that point. Furthermore, no power that is not already specifically tied to an item will ever "require" you have that item, to my recollection. Classes get all their powers based on class; gear only gives bonuses to stats, possibly cuts down cast times for abilities or cooldowns, grants temporary extra bonuses to stats (the latter two most often on the raid tier equipment), and on rare occassions an extra power that may or may not be valuable, as some are only special effects instead of valuable abilities.
Most honest/open response on why DDN needs to be InclusiveShow
I've always felt it is in the best interests of D&D to be as inclusive across the playerbase as they can be and still have a game. I've never felt though that making a game that was inclusive within a group was very useful or even desirable. DM's and players can decide amongst themselves what options or restrictions they want for their games. I tend to lean to the DM to make most of those decisions but again that is a group specific thing.
Having said that. I get the distinct impression that there are a lot of players on these boards who come from groups that generally ruled against their own desires. It's almost like they are an oppressed minority from a gaming perspective. I also get the impression that they tend to advocate against things that if available their fellow group members might like and vote them down on.
Do a lot of you feel this way?
Just for clarification...here are some examples... 1. Alignment restrictions as an option. 2. Alignment Mechanics 3. Martial healing 4. Races being included or not.
I know my perspective is not that I often play at tables where my likes are not represented. Instead, my perspective comes from the many years I spent being a bad DM. I was a bad DM because my guidance came from the books, and the books gave bad advice. The books told me that alignment was a useful approach to roleplaying, so I went with it even though it felt kind of weird to me. Now I know that, at least in my style of running games, alignment destroys rp. I trusted the books to give good advice, and it messed up my game. Now I'm much more mature as a DM, so I know how to take advice with a grain of salt. And I still learn new stuff every session I run.
I don't want future DMs to go through my problems again. There's a big enough DM shortage as it is. DMing well is hard.
The biggest thing I had to unlearn in my process of becoming a good DM was the idea that the game is a simulation of a world. I understand many DMs prefer a more simulationist approach, although I am always skeptical simply because I would have said the same thing until I learned and grew as a DM. This doesn't mean their approach is completely invalid, but it still gives me a personal twinge when I see a regression back to 3e era sim style gaming.
I also have noticed many groups where one or two old-school players run a whole group's playstyle because the newer players aren't even aware there are other ways of doing things. The newer players tell me stories of things they hated in the session, and I end up explaining to them how those things they hate are very fixable, and in fact are fixed in the newer edition of the game their older players have told them is terrible.
In regard to things like martial healing, I don't think it's necessary for it to be in the game for the game to be fun. However, the attitude that says martial healing is terrible and shouldn't exist is an attitude that, to me, reveals a wrongheaded approach to the game. Therefore, my fight for it to be an option is to help legitimize the more narrative approach that I think is what most players want, but many don't know is possible, because they've never been exposed to it.
Primal
