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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 9:42PM
#1511
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2006
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OMG. Talk about selective memory!
Please go get me the quotes where they agreed with you that a second mafia was "impossible". I don't recall ANY of them saying any such thing during the game. As I recall it, the closest any got was saying it was extremely unlikely, BUT STILL POSSIBLE!
already did.
120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 9:45PM
#1512
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2006
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although Nik doesn't say it's not possible, he does describe it as "stupid". so. Pdr explicitly states that this being a Standard means there is no second mafia, as does FFP.
120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 9:47PM
#1513
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but then we're getting into likeliness, which is completely subjective. the question is whether you accept that it could be believable. if it is believable, then it's inherently possible that I believe it's the only option. if you agree that the rules could be viewed in such a way as to indicate that a second mafia was banned, then it's entirely possible that that's the only way I can see the rules. and you don't need to be able to see that way, which you clearly don't. you just have to acknowledge that it exists.
And once again you've just argued my point for me and yet still completely missed it.
The problem isn't whether or not YOU thought it would be completely against the rules, but whether or not you thought EVERYONE would think it was completely against the rules, despite several people obviously holding a different view.
Because your argument that there couldn't be a second Mafia only holds water if EVERYONE would have refused approval of the game.
Had you been arguing that there SHOULDN'T be a second Mafia, I may have even agreed with you, but your argument was that there COULDN'T be a second Mafia, which I still find patently absurd.
I'm just a Pigment of your imagination.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 9:50PM
#1514
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2006
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no, it doesn't matter whether I thought it was completely against the rules. what matters is whether or not it is. this is why, at the end of the game, I asked Rubik to confirm, now that the game is over, whether he felt it was allowed. I'd also be interested in hearing from SJT or PK, since they're the ones who actually get to make that decision.
120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 9:58PM
#1515
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OMG. Talk about selective memory!
Please go get me the quotes where they agreed with you that a second mafia was "impossible". I don't recall ANY of them saying any such thing during the game. As I recall it, the closest any got was saying it was extremely unlikely, BUT STILL POSSIBLE!
already did.
Sorry, but no.
I'll give you Pdr because I don't see anything else from him, but in the links within that post Nik clearly states that he finds it unlikely, NOT impossible. As for FFP...
Spoiler:
Show
Why are you guys talking about SK and 2 mafia teams when we have nothing that points in that sense?
because if there is no kill next night, it might be for different reasons:
+scum not sending the hit in
+niklor protecting
+scum stupidly trying to kill me
+scum not having a kill at all because pere might have told the truth nevertheless and there is an evil group/single-player out there who can only kill at odd nights.
I'm just given possible scenarios here, I still think we are dealing with a single remaining mafiate, though.
ebwop
and we have a mod who sneakily made clear that he might have veered away from a normal setup
Gee, looks to me like FFP pretty clearly indicated he thought a second Mafia was possible.
I'm just a Pigment of your imagination.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 10:04PM
#1516
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Date Joined:
Mar 23, 2006
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I'm sorry, but you're arguing that, because FFP acknowledged that you had some suspicions, that his "a second mafia would be an incredibly bastard move" stance doesn't count? you know what? **** it. you're wrong, you've been wrong this entire time, but you're not gonna see it, and it doesn't matter. I was trying to make sure you didn't try to throw away the next game you play in the same way, but apparently you're hellbent on making sure you continue to push cases based on meaningless crap because you can't tell it apart from actual scum tells, so have fun. I am still interested in hearing from SJT or PK on whether they would've approved this game had it had a second mafia, but I have no interest in continuing this discussion with you.
120.6. Some effects replace card draws.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 10:05PM
#1517
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no, it doesn't matter whether I thought it was completely against the rules. what matters is whether or not it is.
I would agree with that statement if someone in a position of authority had told us WITHIN THE GAME yes or no on whether it would be legal. But without any official comment on it there's absolutely NO justification for asserting that it was impossible for a Mini with two Mafia's of the type Peregrine described to exist.
I tried to get that type of confirmation. I asked the Mod for clarification. He quite clearly did NOT make it clear that it would be impossible.
In fact, until we get an official word from PK or SJT stating that such a thing wouldn't be allowed, I see no reason to believe it couldn't happen in the NEXT Mini to launch.
I'm not saying I find it at all LIKELY that there will be 2 Mafias in the next Mini. And if I'm in the game, I'm not going to proceed on the belief that we need to be wary of 2 Mafias. But I'm not going discount the possibility out of hand either! (I'll likely simply ignore it as I do every other extremely remote and unlikely possibility unless/until something happens to make one of them worth considering.)
I'm just a Pigment of your imagination.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 20, 2012 - 10:13PM
#1518
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likely useless argument that Razor will ignore
Show
I'm sorry, but you're arguing that, because FFP acknowledged that you had some suspicions, that his "a second mafia would be an incredibly bastard move" stance doesn't count?
Um, yeah...
ebwop
and we have a mod who sneakily made clear that he might have veered away from a normal setup
Please point out to me which part of that post indicates that FFP still believes it is impossible and is only acknowledging that I think it is possible.
you know what? **** it. you're wrong, you've been wrong this entire time, but you're not gonna see it, and it doesn't matter. I was trying to make sure you didn't try to throw away the next game you play in the same way, but apparently you're hellbent on making sure you continue to push cases based on meaningless crap because you can't tell it apart from actual scum tells, so have fun.
You know what, I feel pretty much exactly the same about you. You're bound and determined to see only what YOU believe to be true and are unwilling to accept that anyone might behave differently than you would despite clear evidence to the contrary. You're unwilling to debate the actual point and insist on continuing to try to shift the focus to something you feel you can better defend, despite it not being at all what the argument is actually about, so have fun.
I am still interested in hearing from SJT or PK on whether they would've approved this game had it had a second mafia, but I have no interest in continuing this discussion with you.
Agreed, on both counts, though I'd shift the question for SJT and PK to whether a Mini with a second Mafia would be POSSIBLE to get approved if it were balanced, or if it simply wouldn't be allowed to have a second Mafia.
I'm just a Pigment of your imagination.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 21, 2012 - 11:51AM
#1519
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Of ocurse it's possible. I've have to be retarded to bring it up if I didn;t think it was. Or scum.  But seriously, it's easy enough. 9:2:2 Alternating night kills means 1 kill a night, so no surprise there. BP means (until he claimed) both scum teams could waste a shot on FFP. and shadow's alignment would match mine (mafia), so the existence of another scum team could exist as conjecture. It would require more scumhunting, but you would only have to tie them to a single person instead of two others.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 21, 2012 - 3:08PM
#1520
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Date Joined:
Aug 11, 2006
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8:2:2, thats a 2:1 town:scum ratio instead of 3:1 like 9:3 is. And really its only 7.5:2:2 because there were lovers (who died that night, so no excuse for not knowing there). Yes either mafia could get very unlucky and hit the bulletproof twice, or kill each other off, but somehow I don't see town winning that very often.
Mafia History (Most Fun and/or Favorites listed)
Show
SoM Mafia - Mirran-Aligned Mason - Killed Night 5 - Mafia win
Iron Maiden Mafia (Classic) - Mafia-aligned Vanilla - Lived - Mafia Win - MVP
PK Hates you (Int) - Mafia Don - Lived - Mafia Flawless Victory
Toxic Waste Mafia (PC#3) - Mafia-aligned Roleblocker turned Hive-aligned Roleblocker - Hive win - MVP
Basic #4: The Orchard Tree Mafia - Town-aligned Apple - Killed Night 4 - Mafia Win
Mono has Mono, the privates story - Mafia-aligned Godfather - Lived - Mafia Win
Touhou: Border Collapse (PC#4) - Sakuya Izayoi - Died Night 2 - Mafia win
Tales of Symphonia (Int+) - Presea Combatir, Taciturn Girl - Lived - Town Win
Sunflowers for Ragnarokio (PC#5) - In progress
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