I am very happy with these descriptions. Actually, I'd say this is my favorite post from this column so far. It gave me all kinds of ideas for my own campaign. The only improvements I can see would be to make Demogorgon more devious and Nyarlathotep-like, as suggested elsewhere in this thread by EmmeDiEmme. And of course, a similar write-up for the cult of Orcus would be nice.
View full commentI am very happy with these descriptions. Actually, I'd say this is my favorite post from this column so far. It gave me all kinds of ideas for my own campaign. The only improvements I can see would be to make Demogorgon more devious and Nyarlathotep-like, as suggested elsewhere in this thread by EmmeDiEmme.
And of course, a similar write-up for the cult of Orcus would be nice.
BlakeRyan, I found it helpful to think of gehenna, bytopia, etc. as estuaries (between the "big 8" planes) as much as full blown planes in themselves. It makes them more up for grab: boundaries shift easily (ditto the nature of the planes), power converges--new items and races can come from the convergence, souls are up for grab, and even good planes can have intrigue. You could have: Archeron as a heavily patrolled demilitarized zone between Hell and Mechanus, Gehenna as a part of Hell...
I found it helpful to think of gehenna, bytopia, etc. as estuaries (between the "big 8" planes) as much as full blown planes in themselves. It makes them more up for grab: boundaries shift easily (ditto the nature of the planes), power converges--new items and races can come from the convergence, souls are up for grab, and even good planes can have intrigue. You could have: Archeron as a heavily patrolled demilitarized zone between Hell and Mechanus, Gehenna as a part of Hell where the devils have lost control of most of the real estate and the yugoloths have moved in, Carcini and Pandemonium are parts of their respective realms infected (but not yet absorbed) by the Abyss, Ysgard as a bulwark created by powers in Arborea to stop the expansion of Limbo that was created after some displaced (by 5e) 4e primal spirits occupied some unguarded border space between Arborea and Elysium (the Beast Lands) [the Arboreans didn't want to go through that again], Bytopia is a joint construction project between Mt. Celestia and Elysium, and Arcadia is where Mt. Celestia and Mechanus litigate over who has dominion over "justice."
I preferred the newer names of Yugoloths, Gehreleths etc. Otherwise, it Demon, Daemon, Demodand, basicly - Demon, Demon, Demon... Anthraxas is a good name, because it makes it sick just hearing it. You know is bad without any explanation. Phraxus could be anything - it could be a new model of car.
The conventional pantheons are strongly influenced by the cotemporal expanse of the Far Realm which led to the stratification of the Outer Planes. Events in the nonlinear region are essentially fixed and it is convenient to think of them as causative to the Cataclysm out of which the demihuman races (and yugoloths) arose. Though seemingly made over into our own, however, the same universe still exists in which the celesternals are not divided between angels and devils, and persist in their...
View full commentThe conventional pantheons are strongly influenced by the cotemporal expanse of the Far Realm which led to the stratification of the Outer Planes. Events in the nonlinear region are essentially fixed and it is convenient to think of them as causative to the Cataclysm out of which the demihuman races (and yugoloths) arose. Though seemingly made over into our own, however, the same universe still exists in which the celesternals are not divided between angels and devils, and persist in their persecution of the demons, the giants have never ceased to rule over the apians within the spheres of light, the wildmen still contribute to the prosperity of the empires of the mind seekers, and the lesser abominations continue to dominate the gobbels. (The hermetic protoillithids are dismayed by their mind flayer descendants' decline into the subjugation of inferior servitors.) Fractured realities also exist in which the primary conflict is between Law and Chaos, for example, or the kingdoms of the giants coexist in peace with those of humanoids.
The three species of precosmological protohumans are related, though not closely, to the humanoid races. The several breeds of orcs are descendants of apians and an intermediate race between wildmen and humans, the cavemen. The interaction of wildmen and cavemen with gobbels led to the origins of dwarves, troglodytes, and also other protohuman races which diverged into bestial monstrous humanoids such as minotaurs and gnolls. Goblinoids and kuo-toa are the proud descendants of those gobbels whose bloodline was not sullied. Elves and sahuaguin claim similarly pure descent from the giants' apian slaves. The apians also crossbred with gobbels, producing another protohuman ancestor race, olbitlans, which rehybridized with apians to create halflings, and gobbels to produce gnomes. In most cases, humanoids related through a hybrid race can interbreed, but these small races are difficult to crossbreed.
Similarities in appearance and behavior have led to the existence of confusion among the original protohumans, humans, and contemporary protohumans such as gith and fey. Besides humans and mermen, shadar-kai, githyanki and githzerai are all descendants of wildmen, who were initially adopted by their protoillithid patrons because they demonstrated admirable loyalty to the group. Fey have both apian and wildmen blood and were shaped by their exposure to elemental forces, whereas the disobedient...
View full commentSimilarities in appearance and behavior have led to the existence of confusion among the original protohumans, humans, and contemporary protohumans such as gith and fey. Besides humans and mermen, shadar-kai, githyanki and githzerai are all descendants of wildmen, who were initially adopted by their protoillithid patrons because they demonstrated admirable loyalty to the group. Fey have both apian and wildmen blood and were shaped by their exposure to elemental forces, whereas the disobedient wildmen who hid from their masters in the planes of Shadow, long before the treachery of Gith, eventually became the shadar-kai.
Enjoying the playtest packet a great. Gives me just enough to play the way I want to play. Looking forward to seeing what else you come up with. I actually DO like the skill dice mechanic a lot, so a bit sad it might be going away, but I'm going to trust the alternatives will be just as interesting. Thanks for bringing in bits & pieces of the past, and reinterpreting the system with a more modern feel.
Sir Corin's got a point, there's a character in my group doing just what he says and the guy isn't greased up, just punching a lot. They're likely to beef up such feats, which would bring him onto par with the barbarian in the party, so I'm not sure Sir Corin's reservations aren't misplaced. Sorry about the triple negative. I appreciate Clan Battlerage clarifying h/h view of how maneuvers could work like powers. I think maneuvers have to be defined a lot more specifically to make their...
View full commentSir Corin's got a point, there's a character in my group doing just what he says and the guy isn't greased up, just punching a lot. They're likely to beef up such feats, which would bring him onto par with the barbarian in the party, so I'm not sure Sir Corin's reservations aren't misplaced. Sorry about the triple negative.
I appreciate Clan Battlerage clarifying h/h view of how maneuvers could work like powers. I think maneuvers have to be defined a lot more specifically to make their tactical implications more than move and damage, but it is good that somebody is still talking about maneuvers. I think they have the potential to provide many characters with interesting and believable combat options, and contribute to the identity of several martial classes.
My final observation is that in contrast to the binary Fourth Edition definition of "build," Fifth Edition subclasses as described offer a multitude of choices. In addition to having more than 2 basic subclasses (although I hope every class will have at least one subclass which is basic enough to suit mechanical purists), it appears that the class, itself or through additional choices within subclasses, will present options for varying what and how characters do things.
The way society and environment are designed in Mechanus should not try to emphasize “perfection” (on an individual level) but planning and redundancy where necessary. (e.g. imagine passages designed specifically for certain spherical shaped workers occupying the place... rather than the pass entry being a flat plane with a hole cut in it, we would see it recessed, curved opening to account for the statistical probability in variation of trajectory/approach). Thus more complex geometry (less...
View full commentThe way society and environment are designed in Mechanus should not try to emphasize “perfection” (on an individual level) but planning and redundancy where necessary. (e.g. imagine passages designed specifically for certain spherical shaped workers occupying the place... rather than the pass entry being a flat plane with a hole cut in it, we would see it recessed, curved opening to account for the statistical probability in variation of trajectory/approach). Thus more complex geometry (less “boxy” design) is added/accomplished.. ultimately this should build on itself to become its own style rather than having unnecessarily added “flavor” for aesthetics... then again, aesthetic appreciation is also not contrary to order... but where such things are incorporated, it should be done keeping the aforementioned planning in mind.
slaad and modrons... both seem to exist in a vaccuum neither interact with the blood war, githyanki, celestials, sigil or the prime material, they just patiently wait in their outer planes for someone to rock up how about link Slaad into bullywugs or kuo toa? i don't like the idea of slaad being abherrations, since abherrations are from beyond the great wheel/cosmos, not one chaotic aligned part of it. having said that, you could easily say ALL abherrations come from Limbo ...
View full commentslaad and modrons... both seem to exist in a vaccuum
neither interact with the blood war, githyanki, celestials, sigil or the prime material, they just patiently wait in their outer planes for someone to rock up
how about link Slaad into bullywugs or kuo toa?
i don't like the idea of slaad being abherrations, since abherrations are from beyond the great wheel/cosmos, not one chaotic aligned part of it. having said that, you could easily say ALL abherrations come from Limbo
Modrons.. I understand their place in the great wheel, but i've never used them in games, and can't recall anyone else doing so either. Perhaps if they had a big goal like say rebuilt the universe in their image (like star trek borg) others would have more reason to interact with them
Pondering the direction of skills. I asked myself what skills would I say I possessed in my life. Sadly, I can only think of two exemplary (Carpentry and Performance - day job vs. aspiring actor). My conclusion is this: *Skills are vague in most cases - Looking at Perform (not a listed SKILL in this iteration as yet), obviously there are many types of performance (Dance, Oration, Acting, Painting, Sculpting, etc.). So it seems to me that a general Skill (ARTISTRY) can represent a sub-skill...
View full commentPondering the direction of skills. I asked myself what skills would I say I possessed in my life. Sadly, I can only think of two exemplary (Carpentry and Performance - day job vs. aspiring actor). My conclusion is this:
*Skills are vague in most cases - Looking at Perform (not a listed SKILL in this iteration as yet), obviously there are many types of performance (Dance, Oration, Acting, Painting, Sculpting, etc.). So it seems to me that a general Skill (ARTISTRY) can represent a sub-skill or several.
*Skills can vary with type of game - DRIVE, for instance isn't necessarily a useful skill for a fantasy game where most vehicles are animal powered. Handle Animal you say? As would I, but, should Handle Animal be generalized to all animals? Can a horse trainer equally be a lion tamer? I say no. But, If we generalize Handle Animal and produce sub-skills therein (Horses, Lions, Dogs, etc.), we can say that a skill an be flexible contingent on another factor. What might that be? See below.
*Advancement - Should a character that makes little use of a certain skill advance the same as one who makes greater use? IMO, no. How do we progress then? This is where we are with our playtesting.
SUMMERY:
*Skills should be an optional, but in the basic package.
*The list should include general/specific skills (under different game types - fantasy, sci-fy, dark age, etc.) The ability score to represent should be flexible depending on the group (i.e. - Climb might be Str or Dex based or average of both).
*A skill that can be broken down into sub-skills can be adjudicated by ability score modifiers. Handle Animal (potentially based out of Cha) might cover one or more animal types based on modifier.
*Base Modifier - IMO the Skill Die works.
*Advancement - Feat based. All start with their (four?) skills (which may have subs, broadening variety) and beginning level Skill Die (d8?). Buy Skill advancement with feats - die increase, specialist, etc.)
I don't think creature types should have much if any mechanical consequence. I'd rather label creatures with keywords, so special effects can work on them. Hide from Undead needs the game to notate what is an undead creature, and an Amulet of Protection from Vegetables needs you to define what is a plant. But I don't want dragons inherently having different stats than bears. The complexity of 3e-era monster creation was WAY too high. 4e monster design suffered from divorcing mechanics from...
View full commentI don't think creature types should have much if any mechanical consequence. I'd rather label creatures with keywords, so special effects can work on them. Hide from Undead needs the game to notate what is an undead creature, and an Amulet of Protection from Vegetables needs you to define what is a plant.
But I don't want dragons inherently having different stats than bears. The complexity of 3e-era monster creation was WAY too high. 4e monster design suffered from divorcing mechanics from narrative a bit too often, but I did very much appreciate that you could decide how challenging you want a monster to be, and then simply fiat the stats to be in the right place. Keep that ideology, albeit with a mild requirement of some justification for stats (sure, the monster is supposed to be a challenge for a 10th level party, but why is its AC 20? is it slow and armored, or fast but vulnerable to being grappled?). Then add monster types as keywords only.
Much preferred the Origin, Type (Subtype) system from 4E than this. I understand that, without the core assumptions that 4E had, there would be problems in labeling something as having a Fey origin in a setting without a Feywild, I think this is one thing that the previous edition just plain got right. Although, when it comes to 5E monsters, I'd be happy just to see the Level and XP value at the TOP of the write-up
View full commentMuch preferred the Origin, Type (Subtype) system from 4E than this.
I understand that, without the core assumptions that 4E had, there would be problems in labeling something as having a Fey origin in a setting without a Feywild, I think this is one thing that the previous edition just plain got right.
Although, when it comes to 5E monsters, I'd be happy just to see the Level and XP value at the TOP of the write-up
Umm, in my last session my level one party encountered a band of orcs. I went through both my magic missile spells, one of them empowered to do maximum damage, and I only killed one Orc. Granted, my first casting was split my missile between three different orcs (as they all were already damaged by a fire trap) but didn't kill a single one despite the fact that they were each already hurt. My second cast used my daily feat to empower them and two missiles hit one Orc and killed him, and one...
View full commentUmm, in my last session my level one party encountered a band of orcs. I went through both my magic missile spells, one of them empowered to do maximum damage, and I only killed one Orc. Granted, my first casting was split my missile between three different orcs (as they all were already damaged by a fire trap) but didn't kill a single one despite the fact that they were each already hurt. My second cast used my daily feat to empower them and two missiles hit one Orc and killed him, and one missile hit another Orc, and he still survived. After a short rest, I have one first level spell back, the fighter and rogue in the party have not lost any ability to do anything. This was just a random encounter on our way to a town (it was one Orc per party member) and it was our first encounter for the adventuring day. So I don't want to hear any nonsense about the uber power of magic missiles over other classes. Thank you.
Also, not a complaint, I am having fun playing my wizard, at least so far.
Maybe what they should do is have "classic" advancement, which is more of what we are used to and then "official advancement" for use in dnd encounters and living campaigns, as i suspect that's what is behind this move any way. Then people can chose. That could work but it involves not singling out the fast track approach as the default or "right" way to play. I know this for sure, it will fail miserable in its goal of attracting old school players back into the fold if they read that the...
View full commentMaybe what they should do is have "classic" advancement, which is more of what we are used to and then "official advancement" for use in dnd encounters and living campaigns, as i suspect that's what is behind this move any way. Then people can chose. That could work but it involves not singling out the fast track approach as the default or "right" way to play.
I know this for sure, it will fail miserable in its goal of attracting old school players back into the fold if they read that the default game is level every other session as it suggests the game was designed to again he something comlpleatly foreign to what they grew up with. As I said, I myself have been in games that house ruled quicker leveling tracks, and they were fun. But to define DnD as that kind of play won't go over well in winning people back.
if I recall correctly, in the 1st ed Dungeoneers Survival Guide, it mentions the Drow eating their elderly when they have not enough food, just like baby spiders devouring their parents. It should be clear that Drow are not all drizzt with a profession change, they are trecherous and debauched at best.
The greataxe vs. knife debate. What about having faster weapons like a knife offer more attacks due to speed? Maybe 2 attacks but since it is a smaller weapon you attack at a Disadvantage?
I think what they're trying to do is treat Favored Enemies like Cleric Domains. You choose a Favored Enemy species and gain the powers and skill sets needed to fight that enemy which also applies to everything else you fight. So basically, you'd have different types of rangers with different types of powers and skills.
Because I don't want to see this column go, I'm going to be selfish and ask you to write another couple entries. We have learned a bunch about Iomandra, but I'm extremely curious about the type of campaign you are considering running next. Therefore, I would really appreciate you giving us some insight into the themes that are getting you excited for the next go around. I think this would be the perfect "intermission" for you column, as I refuse to believe you have run out of topics...
View full commentBecause I don't want to see this column go, I'm going to be selfish and ask you to write another couple entries.
We have learned a bunch about Iomandra, but I'm extremely curious about the type of campaign you are considering running next. Therefore, I would really appreciate you giving us some insight into the themes that are getting you excited for the next go around.
I think this would be the perfect "intermission" for you column, as I refuse to believe you have run out of topics to talk about forever.
If you are truly finished, then I would suggest WotC begins a new column where each week you have a different employee talk about a memorable campaign, adventure, or encounter they have run or played in; it's these stories that help inspire us all.
I have few words that can do my thoughts justice, but I'd like to try. Very simply, Dungeon Mastering is the reason I can feel "okay" in this place, and your words are the reason I am a Dungeon Master. I don't think I can ever thank you enough for that. Appreciated. - Barker
View full commentI have few words that can do my thoughts justice, but I'd like to try. Very simply, Dungeon Mastering is the reason I can feel "okay" in this place, and your words are the reason I am a Dungeon Master. I don't think I can ever thank you enough for that.
Like: Managing dead level by making not so dead. I believe there are multiple ways in the standard version to ensure a character get more than HP increase at a level up. Maybe in the simpler version this is more an issue, but it comes with the reduced system. Maybe you could think of a way to reduce the levels instead. A level 5 in the simple version could be equivalent to a level 10 in the standard version. Like: Simpler spells. If a spell would create a fog, everyone would expect the fog...
View full commentLike: Managing dead level by making not so dead. I believe there are multiple ways in the standard version to ensure a character get more than HP increase at a level up. Maybe in the simpler version this is more an issue, but it comes with the reduced system. Maybe you could think of a way to reduce the levels instead. A level 5 in the simple version could be equivalent to a level 10 in the standard version.
Like: Simpler spells. If a spell would create a fog, everyone would expect the fog to hinder everyones' vision. If not, then it is a magical fog who can identify allies of the caster, or that lets the caster choose who can see through it. The basic fog version seems more appropriate. I believe magic should reproduce effects of the world. A fireball burns everything and everyone, not only the ennemies. Higher level spells, or more adept casters could eventually be able to circumvent some drawbacks, with feats and abilities for example.
Dislike: Complexity being an issue. I understand that a lot of people did not play D&D because it is complex. But there are a lot of them who like and want complexity. This is why you are making a simple version, a standard version and a even more complex one. If the game is too simplistic, it will loose some charm. The most complex version to me was Advanced 2E. Yet, I know a lot of players who started with this edition, and a lot who still believe it is the best ever. Trying to get more people onboard is a good thing, but is it not secondary to keeping those you already have ?
You can focus on finding a way to make it easier for non-player to get in all you want. I could even have a few constructive and positive comments to help. However, that is not what I am looking for in a game. The vast majority of people I know either play because they love it, do not play because they do not have the time to commit to it, or just find it from uninteresting to blatantly repellent. Instead, find a way to give us more time to play !
And of course, a similar write-up for the cult of Orcus would be nice.
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