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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 6:25AM
#171
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2009
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My interpretation is that.... Spoiler:
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...the Hourglass of Creation is what really summoned the PC's to Oblivae's realm. I mean really, Oblivae created this whole realm of death and destruction - does she really want the Traveling Murder Carnival of PC's mucking about in it? That would be like the crochety old man sending the Scooby Gang guest passes to his amusement park? Sure, it's the sort of thing arrogant villains do, but it's not the brightest move.
On the other hand, this is where they can get all the information they need to know to stop Tsien Chiang, and their chances will be improved with both that information and rings made out of Oblivae's horns. Not to mention the Hourglass probably isn't interested in staying with Oblivae, and powerful artifacts tend to be fickle when their owner's interests dont line up with theirs. Shutting down Tsien Chiang is clearly in the Hourglass's interests. So it summons the heroes to this perfect little model, lets them get all the info on Tsien they can, then watches them smack down Oblivae and innocently asks for a ride.
Maybe this isn't how the writers envision things, but it's definitely what I'm seeing.
Spoiler:
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 7:09AM
#172
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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These are all very interesting theories. It's always facinating to see how things play out, and what impressions the DMs and players take away from the adventures ... For reference, and in line with the major plot (although somewhat spoilery for EPIC4-1 as well) ... Spoiler:
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The PCs have been in the Barrens since the last third of EPIC4-1. When they pass through the portal from I'Cath, they enter the Barrens. They encounter the Order of Light, another civilization near the brink of destruction, and lay the smack-down on good old Kardarach. Then they go back through "their portal" to I'Cath ... though that doesn't actually happen at all. They enter a portal in the Barrens that, not surprisingly, takes them to another location in the Barrens.
As to Oublivae's plot -- she has her own agenda. One goal of which is for the PCs to defeat Tsien Chiang and have the Hungering Dark released, rather than controled, to bring about the end of Faerun. She provides the PCs the information they need to do so, but just can't help her destructive/despair tendencies along the way.
While her ideal outcome was to return the PCs to Faerun with what they need to defeat Tsien, her frustration grows as they actually gain HOPE instead of despair in the Barrens -- to the point where she reveals herself for a direct confontation.
Note also that Oublivae didn't come entirely out of the blue ... she has been an integral part of events from the beginning, "working with the butler" so to speak. She supplied the abyssal shard and took on the role of the Blessed Angel. Just because "the butler" has been an "obvious villian" doesn't mean she has been working alone.
After all, who wants to watch a 120-hour mini-series when you know the butler did it 36-hours in? Surely you'd expect a deeper development to keep you interested until the finale, rather than "watching filler" until you get to face off against the butler? 
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 7:28AM
#173
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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Issues trivially resolved by
Legolas Enoreth
For further confusion, the plot of 4-2 depends on every (or nearly every) PC forgetting they have EPIC06, a story award that should prevent them from ever being trapped to begin with.
Okay, I don't know how to say this any more clearly, so this is my last stab at it ... 
Spoiler:
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In this adventure, from beginning to end, including the end of the previous adventure, there is absolutely, positively no actual time travel involved. This is merely an illusion/effect for Oublivae to help sell the "reality" to the PCs and get them to give into despair, BELIEVING that they have traveled to the future.
So, Legolas Enoreth has no authority here.
Furthermore, EPIC06 does specifically not apply. The PCs are not removed from play (specifically, they are playing in the Barrens) or sent to another plane (they went through the initial portal willingly). And, of course, the last line of the story award ... "The DM determines whether a given situation qualifies for this power."
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 8:40AM
#174
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Again, missing the point. I am not confused about what the story is, I am confused about why the story is that, specifically rather than the other thing that would have tied together with previous story elements better.
Deus Ex Machina is fine. Foreshadowed Deus Ex Machina is better. Foreshadowing one Deus Ex Machina and then replacing it with another that has no tie-in to the prior plot is bad.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 9:50AM
#175
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2010
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Uthrac: I don't recall the adventure mentioning anything about Oublivae handing Tsien the Shard. And what's her relation to Kadarach? Aargh, so confusing! Would've liked some more on this in the DM info part of the module :-(
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 10:00AM
#176
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Eh, it's mostly because of the order of events. It was set in the Barrens - a new 4e "setting" ripe for use - long before the other pieces that trickled in over time. In EPIC3-1, the demons in the temple had Oublivae's ruinlords theme for a reason as did the ones in EPIC4-1, there's an abyssal shard in epic3-3, when the PCs travel through a portal to somewhere like "Faerûn, the Abyss, and an astral dominion", then face the corrupted and last followers of a lost civilization... who are all getting their powers from a demon. Who summons more demons, with Oublivae's theme. And a demonic angel. And a version of the world that is almost impossibly dark & grim, as if intentionally warped to go even more wrong. There are some pieces to be seen there. That said, Oublivae was also trying to convince the PCs that she used time magic at the end of EPIC4-1, to make them believe EPIC4-2. It was always a distraction. Perhaps too good of one, sure. Though, again, it's not like time travel or dreams are somehow better than using D&D's unique plane of existence for just this purpose. Labelas Enoreth was added late to 4-1 to make the message from the gods have a personal touch, and he is _also_ the god of librarians, right before a library fight
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 10:02AM
#177
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Uthrac: I don't recall the adventure mentioning anything about Oublivae handing Tsien the Shard. And what's her relation to Kadarach? Aargh, so confusing! Would've liked some more on this in the DM info part of the module :-(
Quoting from the DM Background info: "
Oublivae has been working alongside Tsien Chiang and Karadrach on all of their attempts to destroy Arvandor and the Demonweb. It was Oublivae who informed Tsien of the Hungering Dark in Carceri (EPIC3-2 ), and it was Oublivae who gave Tsien the shard of the Abyss with which the sorceress almost destroyed the Demonweb (EPIC3-3 )."
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 10:18AM
#178
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2009
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Spoiler:
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Assuming the PC's defeat her in Encounter 8, it looks like Oblivae is dead. No discorporation. So even if she has some sort of master plan regarding the Hungering Dark, she won't be around to see it.
Of course, this can be circumvented in at least two ways that seem obvious to me.
1) What, you think just because you were summoned to some boss fight with some balors and wurms that that was the REAL Oblivae? Psyche! Hello - mistress of deception on her resume.
2) The whole point of passing out the "Destroy Them" and "Devour Them" powers, along with that really fancy bling you may have made out of her horns, was a way to keep her life force hidden within the PC's while she waits to make her real play.
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 10:23AM
#179
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2010
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In my defense: it's been over two months since I read that paragraph >_>
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5 months ago ::
Jan 09, 2013 - 10:33AM
#180
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Oh, no worries. We ask way too much of our Epic DMs.
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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