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There's good advice in this thread, but we really need to hear from the people who don't obsessively check the internet. Next time you're among a group of gamers, talk to them about LFR, DM incentives, etc. and get their input.

You = anyone with the desire and will to change LFR for the better.

Sep 1, 2012 -- 3:54PM, Cpttylorx wrote:

LFR to me, is dying because of death. This is a feel good campaign, with no death, and no attributable factor of death, or loss.  The campaign made a bad decision when they decided to push people to make generated characters in heroic or 11th level characters for paragon.

Hopefully Next will allow for character death, and will make it meaningful and difficult to come back to life.  As Death having no impact in LFR is one of the biggest turn offs I can see so far.

Ironically, one of the mods debuted at GenCon this year has a perma-death option.

--
Pauper

Aug 30, 2012 -- 6:41PM, ShakaUVM wrote:

PFS gave out special "Judge's Boons" to people that volunteered at Gencon, and they get full rewards for mods that they run. This, more than anything, explains why Pathfinder was able to get judges for the beyond-sold-out crowd Friday night, whereas LFR couldn't find judges even at $60/table in tickets.

When you say "this, more than anything," I'm not convinced there is proof of that, or that it is true for enough people. And it isn't about money. I hear what Bgibbons says, but the only people I meet doing that calculus are people who really already are on lean enough finances that they suspect they shouldn't come out to a con anyway. Incentives are great in terms of making you happy. I can afford most books, but I'm still happy to get free stuff (my wife is happier, for one!). But it isn't about some hourly rate calculation. And if a campaign I'm not crazy about paid me a lot of money to judge a campaign I guess at some point I would, but it wouldn't be a good system because I wouldn't be motivated to do a great job. I find there are plenty of people motivated to run awesome campaigns for a modicum of rewards.

Aug 30, 2012 -- 6:41PM, ShakaUVM wrote:

This is kind of my point. You don't need crazy unbalanced stuff to draw people into the campaign (which is what Alphastream keeps seeming to think I'm pushing for), I more mean there needs to be something special to draw people into conventions, and conventions draw people into home play.

Depends on what you mean by "special". I can identify a number of incentives, and indeed I think there should be multiple incentives. Here are a few:

It feels good. This isn't just altruism or liking to judge, but all of that and being part of something exciting. If I had to guess, the vast majority of new PFS judges are there because of one common reason: they want to be part of the game they love. When the reasons to love a game/campaign decrease or the amount of love decreases, you consider other options.

The experience can be special. The Navy LEGO battle, the crazy interactive, the con-only Dark Sun Arenas... these can be really awesome to judge and play. And, they can be lucrative. Some of the most expensive collectible RPGA materials are con-only events. In other cases they may be the only way to get something you want to be able to run in a home game setting. With Ashes of Athas adventures currently not being distributed, being a judge is the only way to get them (and this pains me deeply).

Judging or playing might get you an in-game edge. You get a magic item or story-award outside of the normal bounds of what is expected. This almost always (not always, but usually) means it is stronger. Otherwise, it isn't going to see use by many players and will be judge (usually loudly) as bad/wrong/lame/etc. These incentives are coveted, since gamers love an edge. However, they are also reviled, since they are unfair to someone who organizes hundreds of games in the UK, but can't afford to fly to Gen Con. Or, they might be seen as unfair if reward A offered at Gen Con is seen as inferior to reward B offered at PAX.

Judging or playing might get you an out-of-game but game-related benefit. Room and board for judges, free books, special swag, periodic mailings of special only-for-judges adventures, etc. These vary depending on the type of reward. One player might see a special judge version of Tomb of Horrors as really awesome (and it is valuable on E-Bay), while another might prefer minis or tiles. Another might want player stuff, such as the drow dice. We can get into fair/unfair by comparing Gen Con and PAX: the Gen Con rewards were arguably inferior to those of PAX for the same hours judged!

An let's stop and make an important point. Gen Con this year had one really big screw-up: they gave special rewards to players only. Signing up to judge and then finding out you don't get the same cool dice all the players get? That's really a bad idea. PAX actually started out the same way this year. A few of us mentioned it (or maybe they had planned this from the start) and at the end every judge received the player benefits (which are substantial and cool). Gen Con should not make that mistake again. While I don't think 'stuff' is the primary reason, it should never be made into a disincentive!

Someone else can better compare LFR to PFS, but my understanding is that what PFS offers is not substantially different. Special PC generation type boons are nice, but I don't think they are a consistent reason why judges or players show up. And I don't think any organized play program offers better swag, though perhaps that changed this year? I doubt any swag has as much resale value as D&D rare swag.

And to pull this back to my points, I think the primary reason people judge at a big con is because they enjoy the activity and enjoy being part of it. I judge Ashes of Athas in part because I want to see how the adventures run and learn from that, but primarily because I always have a fantastic time doing so. I like being a part of it. There was a time when I felt that way about Living Spycraft and Shadowrun Missions, but that changed when my excitement for the campaign waned. Special rewards might have extended that a tiny bit, but the end result would have been the same. It is all about wanting to be a part of cool exciting campaign.

In looking at incentives, the first and biggest is for it to be a great campaign for a game you want to play. Everything else falls apart when you aren't excited by the game or the campaign. The campaign must first and foremost focus on the core of making the campaign excellent, because that carries over into everything else.

I like Uthrac's ideas on incentives, in part because they generate excitement. Sitting at Perkins' table is a great incentive, and would showcase to many people that organized play judges are special, valued, and that being part of that cadre would be cool.

I liked how at DDXP/Winter Fantasy two years ago WotC staff played at organized play tables. That's a big deal for players and DMs. I got to judge Chris Perkins, as did some others. It was freakin' awesome!

I also like that organized play is a gateway to getting the writing experience to write for D&D itself. Take a look at just how many of any month's DDI contributors have organized play experience! Part of what helped me was when WotC staff played one of my AoA adventures and liked it. This isn't advertised enough.

I'm a bit burned on the "judge only" tables. The RPGA used to run them, and it felt like an exclusive club in a negative way. It can work, but it has to be managed in a certain way so it is coveted but reachable, versus unattainable and exclusionary.

One possibility is to allow judges to become a bigger part of the campaign. PFS does this in some ways. It would be cool if judging LFR a lot at big cons (or even locally) meant your name was added to a list and you now could weigh in on big campaign questions. What if you could help shape the campaign in some ways, pitch adventures, or create a few things the campaign used? That takes organization, but it can be done.

Another possibility is to have special events, but allow the frequent judges to gain copies and run those locally. This creates a network effect and spreads the message of involvement. Rewarding involvement specifically (such as getting a reward for signing up new players and volunteers) is a great way to keep growth coming.

I do think there should be a judge reward system similar to the one that used to exist. There are some easy wins here, such as discounts on DDI, pdfs or paper copies of normally inaccessible content such as Encounters, minis/tiles, and the like are all worth doing because it sends the message that the company values judges. It can't be the only thing, but I do believe it is a necessary cost.

Product and hotels/badges for judging at shows is a good benefit. Product makes sense on a number of levels, one of which is to facilitate your active members owning the latest products. Also, they are likely to go back and show off their loot, which encourages others to judge. Exclusive product is even better because it really makes judges feel special.

Pretty sure Baldman blows Paizo swag out of the door, except for cool GM certs.
Paizo you get put in a 4 to a person room, versus the bald mans 2, and you get 10$ per slot store credit on Paizo's site to spend.
Baldman does far better swag in volume, but what would really cinche it, would require there to be ability to have unique character clases / races. Hopefully for Next.