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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 7:08AM
#41
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2001
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I also think it's worth considering that, while folks like to talk up PFS, the reality is that PFS today is pretty much where LFR was 3-4 years ago; the flagship organized play campaign with full support from the parent company, tons of content, and the glow of the 'new shiny' on it.
PFS may look good when compared with today's LFR, but what about comparing it to LFR circa 2009? Or for that matter, seeing what PFS looks like in 3 years when the shiny has worn off and the campaign is seen as more of a burden interfering with new projects than a gemstone to be further polished.
--
Pauper
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 7:16AM
#42
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2004
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I want to point out that we're talking a lot about convention play when discussing the various offerings for Organized Play between companies. I'm not sure if that's an apples-to-apples comparison. When LFR was created, there was a deliberate choice to improve the home play experience in comparison to the convention play experience. For PFS and other campaigns that offer convention-exclusive goodies to have larger attendance than LFR is not only to be expected, it was an anticipated consequence of the choice that was made. We can discuss whether or not this was a good choice and what other factors indicate, but to cite convention tables as data supporting the claim that PFS is doing better than LFR ignores the choices that went into each campaign's structure.
If LFR was doing as well as PFS at conventions, that would be an indicator that PFS is doing something wrong (or just isn't as popular in general), as it's making a conscious effort to incentivize convention play and LFR was structured specifically not to (although the occasional convention goodie does come up).
John du Bois
Living Forgotten Realms Writing Director, Netheril story area
Follow me on The Twitter: @JohnduBois
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 7:50AM
#43
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Several gamers have stated that Pathfinder is doing great. I am wondering, at Gencon, how many tables, how many adventures, etc. did they run? Claims that they had more judges available do not mean much unless you tell me the table count.
Keith
From what I understand they had expanded to 75 tables this year at Gen Con. They were running a total of 18 scenarios. There were some pretty popular ones from the previous season (season 3) and they premiered scenarios for the brand new season. They also had a couple of Kid tacks table. They had a special that was scheduled for all the tables Friday night. I believe it was sold out. From what I saw they also had tables in an overflow room fo rjust about eveyr slot. I believe the special ended up having over 90 tables when the overflow room was included. That is the best I know and I apologize for any mistakes.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 8:16AM
#44
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From what I understand they had expanded to 75 tables this year at Gen Con.
Skimming through the PFS forums, that's the number that Mike Brock (PFS head) mentions, though the overflow room brought it up to around 90 tables in some slots. Having played in both the LFR and PFS rooms at GenCon, it certainly seemed to me that PFS had at least twice, if not three times, the nunber of active tables that LFR did, in the slots where I played (I played LFR on Friday afternoon and evening, and Saturday morning; I played PFS on Saturday afternoon and evening, and Sunday morning).
LFR was in a substantially smaller ballroom, and, in the slots I played, maybe 2/3 of the tables were being used. In the Saturday PFS slots, every table (in a much bigger ballroom) was occupied.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 8:28AM
#45
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Sounds more like how things used to be. Very interesting.
... why do our events cost more!?
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 8:40AM
#46
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2008
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Except that the only adventures that come out on time are the ones that debut at conventions, and LFR is suffering terribly in home play as well. PFS is eating away like a cancer at what was once a very strong LFR community in the local area. You guys have got to do something to fix the editing and distribution bottleneck, both for adventures and campaign documents.
I killed Aleena.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 9:44AM
#47
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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I want to point out that we're talking a lot about convention play when discussing the various offerings for Organized Play between companies. I'm not sure if that's an apples-to-apples comparison.
I'll disagree with you. Last year PFS was smaller than LFR by a strong amount. This year it wasn't. PFS has been running tables at Gen Con for many years - since LFR started, if memory serves.
While I agree LFR's strategy from the very beginning embraced home play, that strategy has actually changed over the years. Remember how we argued early on that LFR was not supporting convention play and stores enough? More recently we were saying the judge and DM reward system was all about stores and that changes in reporting were disincentives to home play. I'm not really sure that LFR in its current form has any particular incentive in place regarding location.
And, while I don't see any data I can trust, I'm not sure LFR is so competitive with PFS for home play. Despite PFS adventures having a cost, they can be earned and the system for creating local venture captains and other volunteer positions is excellent. For example, our area used to easily run 5-10 tables of LFR a week. There were a ton of judges willing to take a turn at homes, stores, and gamedays. The low story and low PC impact began to take a toll, which then really hurt once the rules for playing at any level were coupled with the delay in adventure release. It all added up to gumming up the gears of what had been a smooth gaming machine. The wind left the sails and judges and motivated evangelists began to vanish. Two years ago our big local convention had one or two tables of PFS and several efforts to create tables fell apart (and we sat them at LFR or AOA). This year half the room was PFS. The PFS team had posters, pregens, flyers for their local organization, brought in Jason Bulmahn with free stuff, and clearly had all the energy in the room. The home play in this area is further in PFS' favor. There may be one table of LFR going off roughly monthly in our area.
There really isn't any reason why PFS should overtake LFR. We know it isn't mod quality, and in my opinion it isn't about special play rewards. I would argue it is all about organization and corporate support.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 10:06AM
#48
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Also, I think a fair number of people are abandoning 4e like a sinking ship. I'm not entirely sure why they'd run to Pathfinder, but I've seen other folks do it. The odd thing is, those same folks will then complain about how awful some of the rules are, while at the same time saying it's good to be playing D&D again. Sometimes my head hurts to contain it all. But, seriously, $10 per slot kinda offended me this Gen Con. It's hard enough rolling the dice on getting a good DM, without it costing the table $60. I almost offered to just get my friends' schedule and judge all of their slots. Then I realized I'd just be making them pay money to spend time with me. And couldn't we just not pay anything at all and set up our own events at that point? 
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 10:25AM
#49
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Date Joined:
Dec 12, 2005
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Also, I think a fair number of people are abandoning 4e like a sinking ship. I'm not entirely sure why they'd run to Pathfinder, but I've seen other folks do it.
I'm guilty of abandoning 4e like a sinking ship, but I didn't run to Pathfinder. I considered that option, but I just don't like any form of 3e at all. Instead, I've gone to 13th Age by Pelgrane Press.
My LFR Modules: Spoiler:
Show
EAST1-3 Unbidden (H3)
EAST2-3 Nightmares (P1)
NETH3-1 Secrets and Shadows (Paragon Tier) (Author)
ELTU3-6 True Blue (Heroic Tier) (Author)
EPIC3-3 The Tangled Skein of Destiny (Co-Author)
ABER4-3 A Little Rebellion (Paragon Tier) (Author)
WATE4-1 Paying the Piper (Heroic Tier) (Co-Author)
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10 months ago ::
Aug 30, 2012 - 10:35AM
#50
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2009
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Does abandoning LFR to play/run home campaigns of 4E count? Because that's pretty much where I'm at.
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