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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 6:49AM
#31
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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Let us put this in its proper perspective....
we are talking about the unbanning of ten (10) character themes that for the most part are sub optimal choices from a character building perspective and will probably only be picked to satisfy character flavor....
To be clear about proper perspective ...
What you are requesting, in isolation, is reasonable. What you are requesting, as practice, is immense.
What we are talking about is opening a door to "if it's an easy fix, why not make it?" While this specific topic is near and dear to your heart, there are dozens of others who have their own "fixes" that they feel are "easy and necessary" to help LFR. And all of these dozens of changes add up.
+1.
Not to mention, it isn't just allowing DS themes. It is opening up the door to DS feats and paragon paths, some of which are very Dark Sun themed and/or powerful. And if those are allowed, why not Eberron-specific feats such as Dragonmarks.
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 9:06AM
#32
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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MwaO,
You do realize the items that you mentioned in your post ARE allowed in LFR already.
I highly suggest you go back and review the campaign guide.
What is not allowed currently:
Dark Sun: Character Themes (10), Arcane Defiling, Epic Destinies and Wild Talents
Eberron: Dragonmarked rules, faiths and backgrounds
Everything else from those campaign settings ARE allowed in LFR... so again my point, why do we need Dark Sun character themes still banned? If Eberron had character themes those would be legal in LFR.
Once again... the request is NOT a precedent setting request... other campaign setting content is already legal in LFR.... If the Global admins allow this request, it is not opening the door as you say for other content to be allowed in....Newsflash: That door is already flung wide open and more than likely if a new campaign setting came out tomorrow, the majority of that content would be available in LFR.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 9:26AM
#33
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Date Joined:
Sep 26, 2008
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Uthrac,
Is the task of unbanning 10 character themes that immense?
The request is not asking for an entire review of a specific campaign setting to be included in LFR. It is a focused request, centering on an item that for the most part has little impact to LFR and is not precedent setting.
Pragmatically speaking, if the original poster asked for my opinion on this... I would advise him to ask the group that he/she normally plays with if it was OK by them to take the theme and the group would be the judge, jury and executioner then move on.
Asking anything on these boards has demonstrated time and time again and this thread is no exception that there is alot of closed minded thinking in the community.
I personally have no stake in the decision of this request... I have two Epic characters on two dedicated parties that I foresee playing in the future... I have 4 paragon characters that may or may not reach my goal of Level 21 based on if AGLA 2-4 or BALD 3-1 ever see the light of published. I do not see a point in starting any character that does not have a legitimate chance in finishing the campaign, I have small doubts that the Epic campaign will finish at Level 30. When Dave Kay was running the epic campaign he forecasted 3 mods a year... one release at DDXP, one release in the May/June timeframe and one release during the September timeframe... we are now approaching the September timeframe and the second mod of Epic year 2 isnt even released yet which pushes back the third mod and possibly the first mod of Epic year 3.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 9:27AM
#34
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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so again my point, why do we need Dark Sun character themes still banned?
So again, my point, why do we need to spend resources revisiting whether banned content should still be banned? (The larger question.)
Once again... the request is NOT a precedent setting request... other campaign setting content is already legal in LFR.... If the Global admins allow this request, it is not opening the door as you say for other content to be allowed in....
Book of Vile Darkness has been out for a while - why can't some of that stuff be allowed in? And the treasure system, certainly we can revisit that now that there are so many more rares to choose from? How difficult would it be to add a line to the CCG that says "at the end of any adventure, as part of Treasure X, you can choose a rare item of up to your level-2"? There are a whole bunch of Dungeon magazines with restricted content - certainly some articles contain themes and items that aren't broken - can't we unban those? ......
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 9:34AM
#35
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So again, my point, why do we need to spend resources revisiting whether banned content should still be banned? (The larger question.)
To me, this is the point.
Even if it does "only take a few minutes", with the campaign struggling to get adventures out, and struggling to get campaign documentation updated in any sort of timely fashion, I want any time that the campaign staff spends on LFR to be spent on activities which are going to broadly benefit the community. And, frankly, themes in general, and a handful of themes at that, are going to be way down on the list, IMO.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 9:41AM
#36
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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I have small doubts that the Epic campaign will finish at Level 30. When Dave Kay was running the epic campaign he forecasted 3 mods a year... one release at DDXP, one release in the May/June timeframe and one release during the September timeframe... we are now approaching the September timeframe and the second mod of Epic year 2 isnt even released yet which pushes back the third mod and possibly the first mod of Epic year 3.
Well, you'll have to ask Dave about meeting his forecast. 
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm comitted to 3 EPIC adventures per year, with the finale in early 2014. We've got one released so far in 2012, and I have every expectation that the next two will be released by year's end.
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 10:09AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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MwaO,
You do realize the items that you mentioned in your post ARE allowed in LFR already.
No, they're not. Dark Sun Paragon Paths and Feats are allowed. But there are Dark Sun Paragon Paths and Feats that are theme specific and currently banned because they can't be qualified for - unbanning the themes makes them legal, even if they're quite Athas specific.
Such as Smoking Crown Initiates who are servants to the fire-spirits dwelling in the Smoking Crown - the largest volcano on known Athas. It currently can't be qualified for because no one in LFR can be an Elemental Priest.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 10:11AM
#38
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Date Joined:
May 23, 2005
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Yeah with the campaing winding down and coming to an end within the next year or so there are other things they can focus on.
WotC did a great disservice to themselves when they killed off the regionality of the living campaign in my opinion. I am sure there are places where they did not have very many regional LG conventions that they could go to but I know that around here we had 4 or 5 each year we could travel easily to in and out of our region. Those were the people buying the product and playing the game and now I am one of the only ones I know from those regions still playing WotC's D&D. Most of them carried on LG with Pathfinder or have just moved to the Pathfinder campaign. Just sad.
In my view the regionality of LG brought people together at these conventions and grew the game. Lets hope for something similar in the future. I would rather they work on that than allowing themes from another realm into the current realm and campaign.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 10:23AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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Is the task of unbanning 10 character themes that immense?
Yes.
Your belief that this is a simple matter of minutes to take care of assumes that everyone involved is fully conversant with the material and in complete agreement with you, which strikes me as an incredibly dubious assumption to make.
In reality, any sort of decision of this nature would require the globals participating in the decision to review the material, remember (or dig back up) the reasons for the original decision, reconsider whether that decision is still correct, communicate their viewpoint to the others, respond to any differing viewpoints, reach a consensus and communicate their decision to the playerbase.
Making a decision--any decision--in an organization run by committee involves some degree of effort. Doing this as part of an entire new version of campaign guidelines decreases the effort per change (since you generally have one person with primary responsibility and the rest just signing off on the changes, and the effort is spread over multiple changes at once), but making changes outside that process requires a meaningful amount of effort.
Even leaving aside the fact that I disagree with you as to whether this change should be made, even the best case scenario has this as such an incredibly negligible benefit that I can't see it as worth discussing.
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10 months ago ::
Aug 09, 2012 - 3:02PM
#40
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I have to wonder ... what theme (or themes) is the OP considering from Dark Sun, that he/she would bring this up for a debate?
I mean, there are dozens of themes available now from other sources ... are none of them enough for your character concept? Also, themes are optional .. if none of those fit, nothing says you *have* to have a theme....
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