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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 11:30AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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If a PC gains SPEC10 and then later changes their affiliation from Myth Drannor to something else (by being knighted by Cormyr or landed by Impiltur, for example), do they lose the ability wield Faervian? In other words, if they change affiliation, would this cause them to lose the entire story award and therefore be ineligible for EPIC3-1?
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us  .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 2:07PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2007
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As explained in the story award it is a condition of being the wielder of Faervian to have your home region as Myth Drannor. You can have a home region benefit, and a "role playing" background defined seperately, and CB even supports it. If you change your "role playing" background for being knight in Cormyr or other awards I would say this means you cannot be the Weilder of Faervian. You still have the bundle, and an ordinary sunblade, but would be ineligble for Epic 3-1 upgrade.
Just my reading of it.
"As a condition of being the Wielder of Faervian, you
must change your home region to Myth Drannor and
must have taken Faervian as a magic bundle. This change
in home region does not impact your background
benefit, but you are now considered to be affiliated with
Myth Drannor. If more than one PC wields the blade at
one table, and it is important to the adventure, pick one
as wielding the real blade for that adventure. The others
wield an ordinary magical sunblade."
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 2:30PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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I was reading it as you have to make that change to be granted the right to wield it, but once you have it, you have it.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 3:06PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Sep 17, 2007
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I can see what you mean. However, for the purposes of Wielder of Faeruvian, it would lead to believe that you cannot be in an home region conflict and keep the sword as its full version. They come and take it, and give you the sunblade. If you change your region, you default lose the sword. If I was an uppidy Eladrin that made the restriction, I would do that, or some magic happens and the sword is replaced with a replica. Myth Drannor is a tad different in that it is not a true position, position and titles apparently you can have more than one as you see in the thread you posted in. community.wizards.com/lfr/go/thread/view... The precendent was set by the Corm 2-4 thread. I would be interested, as my cleric of benefit-Aglarond has the sword, and has a home region "roleplaying" Myth Drannor. I have no award reason to need other titles, but for RP reasons I have earned them. I would be interested in the author commenting: Joe Fitzgerald, or an official comment either way.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 11, 2012 - 4:40PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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Basically, it's that precedent that's becoming a problem. I'm getting ready to take a character that was never in anything but a home game with the same DM to public play, and the more I read, the more it seems that this character is getting entirely messed up by the loyalties issue. For example, it seems that a character who wanted to remain a Wielder of Faeruvian can't get CORM11, CORM23, or CORM24 at all--meaning that they're locked out of any story awards from CORM2-4 besides the really, really bad one.
What really doesn't help matters is actually IMPI19, from IMPI2-2 Wetwork. The story awards the title of baronet, which (according to the adventure) doesn't affect loyalties elsewhere. Baronet is a higher title than knight, meaning that we're left with the kind of weird precedent of lower titles requiring more allegiance. It also creates some weird situations--the eladrin are fine with you being a baronet of Impiltur, but not a knight of Cormyr?
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 1:38AM
#6
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The relative rank of titles in RL between countries are hardly the same, in fact even within a country not every knight is the same (there are different orders), so what gives you the idea that that is different in Faerun? Cormyr is a well-organized stable country ruled well by a respected king. Myth Drannor is a well organized powerful eladrin country whose ruler is more or less appointed - more or less a meritocracy. Neither state is a true feudal state. Impiltur is a nation in chaos, nothing more than two cities remain of the one proud country, the rest overrun by goblins and demons, ruled by bickering council who fight one another more than those demons. Do you really expect those three countries to treat their ranks the same?  Just as in RL baronet was a made-up title by the king of Englang to gain a source of income, the title in Impultur means very little. The country is in chaos with an ineffective central government. It is a gesture of gratitude, but it does not include priviledges or rights. You got a medal for a service well done. On the other hand, Knight of Cormyr and Knight of Myth Drannor are not just empty titles, they are job positions that include rights and duties. You have effectively joined the armies of those two regions. In case of Faervian, you are also allowed to keep a blade that was forges 1000 years ago specifically for very high ranking government officials during a golden age of glory (Faervian was the blade wielded by the higest ranking bladesinger), culture and magical might that has never been achieved since that age. In fact, the current kingdom is not even a century old, and in between Myth Drannors was a demon invested ruin. You do not give Excaliber to just any random adventurer. The fact that you, likely a non-eladrin, are allowed to keep the blade is in the eyes of the eladrin one of the greatest honors and certain extreme factions might contemplate killing you because in their eyes only an eladrin is allowed to wield it. Regardless, when rewards like these clash, think about the story reasons behind them and the setting. There are good reasons for the restrictions, and just as in RL you can not switch allegiance nilly-willy by becoming a captain in the Chinese army and then expect to switch to the American army without repercusions, nor should you expect the same in Faerun Unless specified otherwise in the cert, titles never mix.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 12, 2012 - 12:59PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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I guess what it comes down to is me questioning the ruling Uthrac made in the thread Dragomyr linked to above. The first example given was a PC who had:
- A loyalty to a non-Cormyr state (the example used was New Velar, from DALE1-6);
- Beaten CORM2-4 and chosen to take CORM23 and CORM24 (Master Spy);
- Previously qualified to take CORM11 but declined to do so, either to avoid a loyalty conflict or simply due to personal choice.
According to Uthrac, this character would not be able to be both a Knight Exalted of Cormyr and a representative of New Velar. However, the second example given, who had:
- Taken CORM11 when offered;
- Beaten CORM2-4 and chosen to take CORM23 and CORM24 (Master Spy);
- Subsequently became a representative of New Velar;
...would be able to hold Knight Exalted status in Cormyr.
Now, I understand what you're saying about story conflicts, but it seems to me that this ruling unduly punishes players who want to spy on Myth Drannor or Tymanther for no good reason. Let me explain that.
Why no good reason? After saving the entire Kingdom of Cormyr, I really think the only thing a Master Spy should need to say is this: "I would certainly have taken Your Majesty's offer of knightship at the time; however, it would have caused my cover as Your Majesty's spy to be blown." The signet ring they get in place of CORM11 (see CORM1-6, page 37) should be sufficient proof of what they say if, again, saving the entire Kingdom isn't. Something that can be that easily explained doesn't seem to be the kind of story conflict you describe.
Why Myth Drannor or Tymanther? Because out of over 200 LFR adventures available for home play (I can't download the "Public Play only" ones to check, obviously), there are only two that offer a sworn loyalty story reward prior to P2: SPEC1-3 and TYMA2-4. Why is P2 important? Because a character that wanted to be a Knight Exalted of Cormyr and have his "cover" loyalty be somewhere else can play CORM2-4 at 17 and then play a P2 adventure, meaning that every other loyalty in the game is available for him to take. By playing the right adventures in the right order, a PC can be a Knight Exalted and be a Burgher of New Velar, a Lord Chancellor of Impiltur... I haven't checked all the possibilities, but there are some pretty important titles available.
The sole reason that, according to this ruling, a character cannot maintain Knight Exalted status in Cormyr and be a Wielder of Faeruvian (or citizen of Myth Drannor) or a member of the Platinum Cadre is because those are handed out in H3 and CORM2-4 is a P3 adventure. In other words, if SPEC1-3 had a P2 or P3 option that awarded Wielder of Faeruvian, the PC could get CORM23 and CORM24 to become a Knight Exalted Master Spy, beat that SPEC1-3 version, and take Excalibur out of the eladrins' welcoming hands. There's no story reason to prevent it; the only thing stopping it is a campaign rule that higher-level characters can't play in lower-level games.
Now, that rule is in place for good reason, even though it occasionally bites when a cool H1 adventure hits that I'd love to take my old guy through. But doesn't it seem somewhat arbitrary that something that can be explained away in a sentence is only unavailable due to a campaign rule designed around making adventures mechanically challenging for all participants involved?
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 13, 2012 - 4:59AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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Well, I have little control over which other story regions decide to offer citizenship, much less a noble title. It's useful to note that CORM2-4 was never intended to provide "pick a region of your choice - you can spy on them." It was always intended as an award opportunity to PCs who had dedicated a full career of loyal service to Cormyr over their adventuring career. For those who have proved their loyalty at level 17+ (by acquiring all appropriate story awards and remaining true to Cormyr), Lord Prio approaches the PC, and if they wish to be a Master Spy (rather than one of the other prestigeous positions), then they are invited to take advantage of any future offer that a kingdom is likely to offer a high-paragon PC. I suspect that there will be opportunties for a Cormyrian Master Spy to infultrate the Pashas of Almraiven in Calimshan or the Masked Lords of Waterdeep.
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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12 months ago ::
Jun 13, 2012 - 6:18AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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That's... very interesting. Isn't it possible to get CORM24 without being loyal to Cormyr at all? I mean, you have to beat the major quest, but you've already said that you can do that while turning down the loyalty aspect of CORM11; if that's the case, what about CORM24 requires swearing loyalty to Cormyr prior to the award itself?
Not that I'm advocating changing it, of course; it's already hard enough to get a fair break on some of these loyalties as is.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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12 months ago ::
Jun 13, 2012 - 7:14AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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The wording on the story award isn't the clearest. The intent is that you can complete the major quest (and earn the bonus XP) regardless of loyaties. CORM24 is intended as a reward for loyal knights of Cormyr who completed the major quest and have an additional "recommendation" from another story award. The campaign intent {general} is that each PC should only have true allegiance to one country. The Master Spy {specific} is intended as a reward for "Cormyrian faithful," similar to how Faerviun is intended as an award for the "Myth Drannor faithful." (i.e. These specific awards are not intended to be stackable.) >>> As a side note into the process: CORM2-4 was the first one-round regional 17-20 adventure released, and the story award was created under two assumptions (reasonable at the time). First, most PCs would be playing this adventure as level 17 or 18 PCs. Second, no additional adventures set in Cormyr would be released (story arc concluded). I fully anticipated that a number of other regions would also be offering titles and such, so wanted to keep open the opportuntity for a "dedicated Cormyrian PC" to earn any of those specific awards that, at that point, had not been written. (There was almost zero P3 content available at the time.) Otherwise, a Cormyrian PC potentially hits a dead-end at Level 18. "Okay, I've devoted my career to Cormyr and I'm level 18. Now what?" So, the purpose was less "I want you to be able to gain mechanical benefits from two regions" and more "there's a reason for your Cormyrian PC to keep adventuring for a couple more levels." I hope that makes sense!
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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