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1 year ago ::
Mar 29, 2012 - 5:29PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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I don't see what the issue is. Isn't it assumed that the only things that actually "count" in the campaign are things that occur within the adventures themselves? It doesn't matter what elements you have either mechanical or flavor, under no circumstances is anything able to contradict the adventure content...
Unfortunately, I do believe that there are players out there who would use the theme to attempt to bully GMs into letting them do things and get away with things which aren't explicitly part of the theme.
It's one thing for a player to say, "of course I can do this -- I'm King of Cormyr!" It's another thing for a player to say, "of course I can do this -- I'm a Masked Lord of Waterdeep! See, here's my documentation!!"
That might make sense if they had documentation that they were the King of Cormyr, but being a Masked Lord is part of being a secret society of rulers. Most instances of where it could influence things is where it would involve revealing the secret, likely to NPCs who flat out shouldn't know you specifically are a Masked Lord. Because Masked Lords don't do that.
The theme ought to be good for lots of roleplaying flavor - it influences your actions without openly using your off-camera powers. Anyone trying to bully someone ought to be required to show the DM the theme and the fluff text ought to make it incredibly clear that the PC should not be trying to bully anyone - as that might sic the dopplegangers on him...
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author) Handbooks
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1 year ago ::
Mar 29, 2012 - 7:17PM
#52
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That might make sense if they had documentation that they were the King of Cormyr, but being a Masked Lord is part of being a secret society of rulers. Most instances of where it could influence things is where it would involve revealing the secret, likely to NPCs who flat out shouldn't know you specifically are a Masked Lord. Because Masked Lords don't do that.
I don't disagree with anything you've said...but, it wouldn't surprise me that those who would be likely to attempt to abuse the theme are the same ones who wouldn't care about violating the Realmslore about the Masked Lords.
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
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1 year ago ::
Mar 30, 2012 - 7:44AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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That might make sense if they had documentation that they were the King of Cormyr, but being a Masked Lord is part of being a secret society of rulers. Most instances of where it could influence things is where it would involve revealing the secret, likely to NPCs who flat out shouldn't know you specifically are a Masked Lord. Because Masked Lords don't do that.
I don't disagree with anything you've said...but, it wouldn't surprise me that those who would be likely to attempt to abuse the theme are the same ones who wouldn't care about violating the Realmslore about the Masked Lords.
The same people willing to violate Realmslore(aka essentially cheat) are going to be the same people who pretend not to see that the theme is illegal for LFR.
The only people that this is going to punish are the people who legitimately find Masked Lord to have an interesting roleplaying flavor. Because no one is likely taking it for the crunch.
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1 year ago ::
Mar 30, 2012 - 7:54AM
#54
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2001
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The same people willing to violate Realmslore(aka essentially cheat) are going to be the same people who pretend not to see that the theme is illegal for LFR.
And of course, if the theme is illegal, the DM can blow it off, just as she'd blow off a +20 attack bonus based almost entirely on stacked power bonuses -- if it's against the rules, the DM is supposed to disallow it.
Are there really so many players pretending not to see that Dark Sun and Book of Vile Darkness themes aren't legal in LFR that we have to allow those, too?
--
Pauper
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1 year ago ::
Mar 30, 2012 - 2:03PM
#55
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Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2002
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The same people willing to violate Realmslore(aka essentially cheat) are going to be the same people who pretend not to see that the theme is illegal for LFR.
And of course, if the theme is illegal, the DM can blow it off, just as she'd blow off a +20 attack bonus based almost entirely on stacked power bonuses -- if it's against the rules, the DM is supposed to disallow it.
There's no mechanical rule that allows a Masked Lord theme to do what is being described. It is the fluff of FR and the fluff of Masked Lord makes it expressly clear that going around claiming to be a Masked Lord is roughly the equivalent of asking to be killed the next day.
Anyone trying to abuse this in game is basically cheating by not explaining that their theme says that you can trust no one with your secret. Even potentially the Open Lord Neverember is a Doppleganger. What happens if you claim to be a Masked Lord in a mod and the Masked Lord in court that day decides to say, "Nope, never heard of you..."
That's it - you've just been handed a death sentence.
Are there really so many players pretending not to see that Dark Sun and Book of Vile Darkness themes aren't legal in LFR that we have to allow those, too?
Dark Sun and BoVD have some clear reasons to not be allowed into a shared world FR game. IMO, needs to be something stronger than "Players inclined to cheat at D&D anyway might use this to cheat."
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1 year ago ::
Mar 31, 2012 - 10:33AM
#56
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My designed-for-Neverwinter character took Heir of Delzoun as a theme because he's a dwarf anyways. I'm going to fluff him a bit - he's NOT a royal heir. His family has been steadfast, loyal servants of the Crown for as long as tales have told.
My LFR Warlock, however, does not yet have a theme. I haven't found one I liked and provides something my character can use. I don't need another ranged 10 attack, and my abilities in melee are horrible (STR 8). Maybe a close burst/blast that prones or pushes away? Or something like a mage's / psion's cantrip(s)? A skill bonus or Resist 5 Something would be interesting, too.
My Dark Sun druid took his theme to qualify for a particular paragon path.
I haven't thought about themes for my other characters-a-building yet.
Best complements I have yet received: Spoiler:
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Making it up as I go along:
{BRJN}
If I was writing the Tome of Lore, I would let Auppenser sleep. But I also would have him dream.
In his dreaming he re-activates the innate powers of (some) mortal minds. Or his dreaming changes the nature of reality - currently very malleable thanks to Spellplague &c. Or whatever really cool flavor text and pseudo-science explanation people react positively to.
{Lord_Karsus}
You know, I like that better than the explanations for the Spellplague.
My plot device: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/ … #489880509 (The reaction is the next post.)
Prepped ahead of time:
I started the thread "1001 Failed Interrogation Results"
{ADHadh}
These are all good and make sense! I just can't come up with something that's not covered here and is not completely ridiculous.
My characters: Spoiler:
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Active Characters:
LFR Half-elf StarLock6 Gondolin Nightstar
AoA Dwarf Guardian Druid6 Narvik from House Wavir
Character A-building:
Neverwinter Dwarven Invoker / Heir of Delzoun / worships Silvanus (!)
"Truenamer" - speaks Words of Creation
Concepts I'm kicking around:
"Buggy" Wizard - insect flavor on everything
Halfling Tempest Fighter - just because nobody else is doing it
Shifter Beast-o-phile Druid - for PoL campaign
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 7:43AM
#57
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2007
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Please see new blog post for the official LFR campaign decision regarding these themes.
Claire Hoffman
LFR Global Admin
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 8:16AM
#58
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2001
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Seems like a reasonable compromise to me -- PCs get to use two of the three themes, and DMs get guidance on what to expect when a PC with that theme shows up at their table.
I actually like the idea of having themes be 'unlocked' via story award, though for obvious reasons it's probably best suited for heroic-tier adventure arcs.
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Pauper
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1 year ago ::
Apr 06, 2012 - 2:57PM
#59
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2007
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I have already added a "Troubleshooting" section in WATE3-1 to help the DM with one of the themes and will consider that for upcoming Waterdeep adventures. IF I get time, I may post spoiler tips for past Waterdeep adventures, but right now I am way too busy with editing and such for upcoming adventures.
I do plan to create at least one story award for the Masked Lord position; after the PCs have a chance to show their competence and dedication to the leadership of the City.
Keith
Keith Hoffman
LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
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