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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 9:33AM
#61
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Loved the maps, I expect to be running this at a convention in the next 3-4 months-were they from Book of Vile Darkness?
Some of the maps were from the Book of Vile Darkness and some were from the Haunted Temples map pack. In Part 1, 5 map were from Haunted Temples and 2 were from BoVD. In Part 2 (missions that every table does), 1 map was from Haunted Temples and 2 were from BoVD. At ~$12, the Haunted Temples map pack is pretty useful since 6 of the BI's 10 maps come from it.
Lori Anderson
WotC Freelancer, LFR author
@LittleLorika
CALI3-3 The Agony of Almraiven (co-author)
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author)
CALI4-1 Plain of Stone Spiders (author)
QUES4-1 Liberation (co-author)
EPIC5-1 Plaguewrought Prism (co-author)
TotalCon: http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 9:42AM
#62
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As others have said, I really liked the mission structure of Part 1. I liked that each table could do encounters they thought sounded interesting/important. It also made it feel like a real attack - bad stuff was happening all over the city and you couldn't be everywhere at once, so you had to prioritize and try to help as much as you could. I didn't even realize until after DDXP that there weren't any special missions in the B.I. It didn't feel like the play experience was diminished by not having the special missions because it was like everyone was doing special missions.  I also really liked the impact the part 1 structure had on timing. Some tables simply play faster than other tables due to a wide variety of factors. I liked that the "do as much as you can in X time" meant that people could play at whatever pace they wanted. Fast tables weren't sitting around bored for long periods of time waiting for other people to catch up and slower tables didn't feel pressured into racing through everything and/or never getting to complete anything due to time constraints. At TotalCon we had a large map on the wall and each table had a sticky with their table number on it. Once a table decided which mission they were going to next, they put their sticky on that location. When a table successfully completed a mission, the event organizer put a green smiley-faced sticky on that location (or a yellow neutral-faced sticky if it was a partial success). That way players could quickly look at the map and see what missions needed the most help. Overall I had a lot of fun playing the BI at DDXP and helping Dan coordinate it at TotalCon. (And it was fun wandering around as the "hideous multi-headed bride of Dagon - rarh"  )
Lori Anderson
WotC Freelancer, LFR author
@LittleLorika
CALI3-3 The Agony of Almraiven (co-author)
NETH4-1 Containing Shadow (co-author)
CALI4-1 Plain of Stone Spiders (author)
QUES4-1 Liberation (co-author)
EPIC5-1 Plaguewrought Prism (co-author)
TotalCon: http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 10:03AM
#63
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Overall I had a lot of fun playing the BI at DDXP and helping Dan coordinate it at TotalCon. (And it was fun wandering around as the "hideous multi-headed bride of Dagon - rarh" )
Hmm, bride of Dagon. Bride of Dan.
Does that mean Dan is banished from Myth Nantar forever?
More seriously - _loved_ the use of the poster maps for this adventure. It made DMing _so_ much easier, and I'll keep using the maps in other adventures. Great stuff.
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 10:26AM
#64
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More seriously - _loved_ the use of the poster maps for this adventure. It made DMing _so_ much easier, and I'll keep using the maps in other adventures. Great stuff.
The poster maps were absolutely fantastic. We were Keith's table and the maps made things cleaner, simpler, and much more visually attractive. I hope the campaign staff keeps up the trend and uses the new poster maps for all BIs.
I actually liked the Dagon fight. I like that the DM had the tools to challenge parties as he deemed fit - the power should be in the DM's hands. You might get some abusive DMs but that's how the game works, right? I think the melee-only table story was unfortunate, but most tables should come prepared to handle difficult situations in the final encounter for a BI - especially one where they've deliberately made it more challenging on themselves.
On another note, I have never been targeted by coup de grace so many times in one encounter. Keith actually had me sweating a little. I guess it serves me right for trying to keep a beholder marked.
Dave Kay
LFR Writing Director Retiree
dkay807 [at] yahoo [dot] com
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 11:20AM
#65
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Date Joined:
Apr 14, 2010
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I do however question the design choice of the final encounter, since exchanging the spam-immobilization effect with any- or mutliple of increased stats on dagon, ongoing damage or dazed would have changed the encounter from completely impossible and frustrating to very challenging but still fun, and it would have accounted for the fact that not everyone would be fortunate enough to go at him with ample ranged backup.
I am positively laughing at this.
"I feel this encounter was badly designed, because instead of having powers and status effects we're accustomed to dealing with, the monster had a different power that our oddly-composed party wasn't equipped to handle."
Here's an idea -- how about we petition the admins to release ADCP 5-1, but make it a reprint of ADCP 3-1 with all the monster names changed? That way, you'll already know what to do to march through the module like a bunch of Big Damn Heroes, regardless of party composition! And that'll save time that would otherwise have been spent trying to come up with new and original encounters, when all the players want are 'fun' encounters that do exactly what they expect!
--
Pauper
The end-boss was a downscaled version of a level 32 solo. At that level, parties are expected to be able to deal with at-will area burst save ends immobilization that also teleports the monster. At lower ALs (including all heroic levels!), it's just unfair.
But I have faith Sean will change this in the final version of the adventure.
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 11:20AM
#66
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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On another note, I have never been targeted by coup de grace so many times in one encounter. Keith actually had me sweating a little. I guess it serves me right for trying to keep a beholder marked.
Heh, I _was_ really clear that it was his only way to remove a mark so all you had to do was not mark him
I just wish I hadn't rolled a 2 with the CdG Disintegrate. Ongoing 40 would have been funny.
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 11:41AM
#67
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On another note, I have never been targeted by coup de grace so many times in one encounter. Keith actually had me sweating a little. I guess it serves me right for trying to keep a beholder marked.
Heh, I _was_ really clear that it was his only way to remove a mark so all you had to do was not mark him
I just wish I hadn't rolled a 2 with the CdG Disintegrate. Ongoing 40 would have been funny.
Well I rolled consective 1s [needing only a 3 or 4] on attempts to daze/blind and dominate that monster; and Dave rolled 3 or 4 2s in a row. lol It was unreal. But it made things more interesting and ultimately fun. So that was good. Thanks again, Keith.
Daren
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 2:19PM
#68
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Eh, the (empowered) version of Dagon that I ran has flatly problematic stats. It can immobilize a group at-will twice per round (plus APs), teleporting itself wherever it wants as it does so.
That's not good monster design. No amount of "Well, you should just be more awesome at ranged" really changes that. It's not _fun_ design. Especially not in an encounter that wants you to move around and do Skill Challengey stuff.
I DMed the adventure recently, used the power once, saw how annoying it was... then used my other more fun stuff for the remainder of the combat. Because there's a section at the front of every LFR adventure that says to make sure you run a fun game that is appropriately challenging, and that rules text comes before the one that told me the power was at-will, and certainly before the non-existant one that said I _had_ to use that power over and over if that was my best chance of killing everyone
Hopefully, the collective feedback gets it tweaked slightly in the final version - rather than necessarily berating people for complaining about an encounter that was _unfun_.
Thank you
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 9:18PM
#69
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I think it's a valid assumption that a party of Paragon PCs (that didn't just hit 11) will have more than save granting when it comes to mobility penalties, especially melee characters since that's one of their biggest weaknesses; same goes with having ranged attacks to deal with fliers.
I cannot comment on the overall brokenness of the creature, I'll just have to take keithric's word on it; however, "Creature with ranged attacks that can stay out of melee trivially" is a thing, and it is a common thing, if it was unfun, it was unfun for the same reason that driving to the fair but having forgot your wallet is unfun, and it is certainly not the fault of the fair for costing money.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
Show
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1 year ago ::
Feb 28, 2012 - 9:52PM
#70
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- Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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Basically just a slightly altered form of the standard Dagon stats, reduced somewhat in effectiveness for level difference (12-30 levels lower), and given two sets of actions per round (more modern solo design). Even at level 30, the at-will burst 3 immobilize and teleport isn't terribly _fun_ but it's a lot more dealable... and it normally can't do it twice per round. At level 14, it's pretty trivial to use it every round along with the slides and pulls to keep someone permanently immobilized. So they can teleport out once, say, and save before acting once, say... but if they save at end of turn, they just get re-immobilized. And most flying creatures can be more easily moved and/or proned. And don't hover near you taking opportunity attacks when you make a ranged attack - something which might mean that taking ranged attacks are actually _counterproductive_. Force moving your allies or granting them saves is probably the more realistic option. Dunno if the DM was also force moving them so they weren't adjacent to stop that. That'd be a more perfect storm of BLEAH. I'm actually a fan of forcing melee PCs to deal with slow and immobilize and such, but it's not necessarily interesting when it's so easy to reapply. Worse, in this particular encounter it's _far_ more interesting if the PCs are able to move around and deal with the various portals and such. Even a character with Disciple of Freedom might be pretty frustrated in that combat. At least, one with my luck P.S. Pulling out rule 42 and doing an improvised attack with some crazy skill theory on Dagon sounds like the way to go for that group. Or maybe calling out for assistance from the battle interactive and maybe bringing in a PC from another table.
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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