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Switch to Forum Live View EPIC4-1 Shooting the Moon
12 months ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 8:00AM #71
tirianmal
Date Joined: Oct 26, 2008
Posts: 1,064

Jun 26, 2012 -- 9:27PM, Benird wrote:


As the PC who got nerfed by the aura that cause the daze to transfer and I am sick of this being a recurring theme in the EIPIC mods, although this is mod was probably my favourite so far.

I've got 1 thing to pick on the idea that you say, "For Daze, I'd say that granting CA and not being able to take Immediate Actions is pretty harmful.."

I'll conceed that the not being able to take immediates is annoying but harmful? Really? Is it more harmful than the 2 warlocks getting CA when they both have the creature cursed as well as the potential for 2 lots of damage bumps/turn, or a paladin's mark causing a creature to be weakened? And if it's all conditions that grant CA then what about prone? It grants CA, the creature suffers a -2 penalty to attacks, etc, etc. Can the creature also transfer the prone condition? That IMO is stretching the realms of fantasy just a bit far, but stands to reason when the idea of a condition that grants CA is harmful.

I really did like this mod though, I thought overall it was balanced, but as a control wizard with virtually no damage I felt once again shafted when creatures started dismissing everything I did. I will hand it to our DM though he did calm the situation in a way that I felt was fair (ie if the creature absorbing the condition was already subject to it or would be subject to it from the same attack he would not transfer the condition).

An as for the thoughts that PCs should not be surprised that epic level monsters should take precautions to prevent PC tactics, I accept that and am happy for it but I think the writers should think about laying off control characters for a bit and try to come up with ways to nerf strikers or defenders for a bit, the controllers are over it!

I think it would be useful for DMs to get an overaching appendix or ruling when terms like damaging are used as a guidline on how to define that. It is evident in our small group the term "Damaging" has different meanings between our players and we've been playing together several times a week for several years now, so I'd hate to think what the players around the world would define this term as.
/rant




I'll note a couple of things. 1) Reducing "Control" effects, if you mean things like Daze, Stun even Immobilize, all affect Defenders too. Probably other class types as well. An effect like the one you're describing would have really screwed my Paladin's most powerful effects, and probably left him useless. So, let's realize that not only _your_ character is affected by such tactics/monsters.

2) In a world of gods and powers like Time Stop or Prismatic Spray, you have a problem with a Monster able to transfer the "prone" condition (not that I'm suggesting that that would be transferred in the above example, nor am I objecting to it if it did) ... really? You're going to draw the line there? I'm really sorry, but you need to readjust your metrics on what is "possible" in this world of ... F-A-N-T-A-S-Y.

The fact that your players would argue the word "damaging" suggests also that you play with a group willing to argue/nitpick rather concrete aspects of both the game and the english language. And that helps me calibrate your rant, however, it also suggests to me that perhaps it is time your group _stopped_ arguing such points and spend more time enjoying the rest of the game.

Unless you all enjoy spending time on that sort of thing. Which I can totally see (I'm an arguer by temperament), but I don't think everyone else here does.

For my part, I will define "harmful" conditions as "any effect that endangers X or affects their ability to act in their defense". Yes, prone is by p 276 of the PHB a "condition" ... and given no other reason to say no, I'd probably allow removal of prone from the NPC. I'd also be perfectly willing to go along with a ruling that said that the state of being prone after applying the Prone condition is not removable. *shrug*

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12 months ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 10:26AM #72
Uthrac
Date Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 1,556
The short answer is: 
The DM makes the call.

Especially at Epic play, we don't want full-page stat-blocks indicating case-by-case rules to handle every situation.

If the DM decides that the bad guy can't transfer prone . . . that's fine.

If the DM decides that the bodyguard across the room throws himself to the ground causing a ripple of force to pop the bad guy back on this feet . . . that's pretty much fine too.  

Ultimately, the DM has the responsibility for evaluating the play-style at the table . . . whether it be focused on more fantasy, more mechanics, more role-play, more RAW, or whatever mix of styles everyone will find most enjoyable (including the DM).

As to picking on controllers . . . it's certainly natural for the player of a controller to specifically notice the way they are being hindered, and notice a little less the things that impact them less. For example, the creature that transfers harmful conditions ALSO takes half of its master's damage.

Also . . .

Final Encounter Show
We do try to be equal-opportunity when it comes to slowing down the PCs.  
Consider the following few examples:
• No Defense: My attacks ignore your power bonuses to defenses and no free, immediate or opporunity actions are triggered. (Sad Defender!)
• Abandon Hope: Remove all harmful conditions at end of turn. (Sad Controller!) 
• Sicken and Die: Cannot regain hit points. (Sad Leader!) 
• Blood Oath: Minion takes all of the damage from the attack. (Sad Striker!)
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director

Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 5:13PM #73
Benird
Date Joined: Jan 27, 2009
Posts: 145
I loved the final encounter it really made the party chose what was the most important to them and prioritise the other effects.
 
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 27, 2012 - 7:01PM #74
comicbradsell
Date Joined: Apr 8, 2009
Posts: 919
Ran EPIC 4-1 this past weekend at AnCon 2012 in Hudson, Ohio.
Human wizard and human warlock who play together often.  Human druid and goliath barbarian who play together often.  Two solos who hadn't met the others before, eladrin wizard and human hexblade.  No leader or defender, not surprising for a convention.
They had good stories for what they had been doing since EPIC 3-3 and the intro went well.

Spoiler: Show
They did well in three of the library rooms but the hexblade and barbarian were helpless in gathering History information.  Combat ensued and everyone did well except the fire warlock was alone with the fire-immune boss.  He held his own, used several daily attacks and utilities/items before he went bloodied.  Had the boss at 50 hp when others arrived to help.

I think they enjoyed the voyage to the lost city however all but the barbarian failed to enter safely and had a spellplague mutation.  They took a fair amount of damage from the dragons and gargoyles but finished them off handily.  I had three of them dominated from the traps when the second dragon was finished.  The mutations sounded terrible but PCs had no trouble avoiding their effects.

Saving the power of Sehanine in her lost temple was an appropriate challenge.  Tsien Chang got four of the seven statues.  Daily powers were being used often for them to stay upright as damage got distributed.  Having the gorgons immune to forced movement prevented them from getting a fourth statue.  Eladrin wizard went down but 20'd his first death save.  4 of the PC's had multiple teleport powers so mobility was no issue.  Losing the Mistress of the Night seemed less upsetting to them than it was for me when I played it.

5 of the 6 players took extended rests, not surprising since I had them low on dailies and surges.  The druid was the only player to not take the extended rest, he was also the only one who had played this already.  Everyone liked the gathering of armies, felt appropriate to their level and gave them a chance to use the contacts they had accumulated over 23 levels.  Everyone did very well in recruiting.

Leading the armies into battle went well, all but the hexblade did fine on their task.  He rolled a two so even with all his bonuses he needed to expend quite a few resources.  Everyone had either minimal or mild casualties.

Battle outside the Palace of Bones wasn't very challenging for them but I did have several minion crits, it was nice to have something useful happen with the flat damage.  When the barbarian crit'd he dealt 33 damage to all non-bloodied enemies within 10 so there went about half of my minions.

Facing the three daughters was also not too difficult.  Two walls and two damaging zones let the PCs face half my forces at a time, after my shield guardians went down the sisters were hit wiht stun powers.  Only a few minions were killed before Spite had a chance to make her deal, which was accepted without any disagreement.

Good section next on Tsien's plans for Dalelands and Akanul, alliances with evil nations, world domination.  Her angelic ally plus an unidentified woman were enough incentive to lead the group through the portal, as was an unwritten cave painting I used back in the temple to show PC's learning about Tsien's powers and how to defeat them if they came to the island.

This party had no problem accumulating the 12 successes they needed to end the next combat.  I bloodied one or two of them though.  Good roleplaying opportunity after the scene as I portrayed the Blessed Order's misguided faith versus the PCs' attempt to learn vital information without antagonizing them.

I played up the pulse of energy released by the mystery woman as she left and its time-slowing effect as foreshadowing.  I had planned to run this on the harder setting but I had 4 of them bloodied and everyone dazed/immobilized/both before the PCs got a turn so I ran it on normal setting.  4 PCs with teleport and appropriate skills meant one glyph was deactivited each round, as they kept three disabled and when one would recharge it was taken out immediately.  They went for power bonus to defenses, immediate actions, attacks of opportunity first, then healing, then the conditios.  Ignored the temp hp/resistances glyph.  Controllers shone here as they used stun (after getting rid of my team's ability to end conditions), force wall, and mass transformation (3 demons and Karadrach, you are tiny guinea pigs).  Hexblade was insubstantial until the end of the encounter, only thing that kept him alive.  Eladrin wizard went down again.  They felt nicely challenged and Karadrach's return was a surprise.  Damage output from warlock, barbarian, and hexblade was too high to overcome though.

Return to Faerun and the passage of time/demise of their armies was a nice cliff-hanger.


11 hours of gameplay, 2 hours of breaks.
A PC was unconscious or would have been unconscious without epic destiny 5 times.  They did better than I expected.
5 of them had played one or more previous epic modules and four of them said this one was the best.  The other guy liked EPIC 3-3 more (?weirdo!).  All seven of us look forward to EPIC 4-2!
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12 months ago  ::  Jun 28, 2012 - 4:46AM #75
Uthrac
Date Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 1,556
Thanks for sharing! Sounds like you provided an appropriate challenge - well done!
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director

Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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10 months ago  ::  Aug 02, 2012 - 8:32PM #76
Joshua_Randall
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2003
Posts: 689

EPIC 4-1 Shooting the Moon


This past Saturday, July 28, 2012, we played EPIC 4-1 Shooting the Moon. We have a group that gets together once a month for marathon D&D sessions. Recently, though, we decided to make the session not quite as marathon, so we are splitting EPIC 4-1 in twain. This post describes what happened when we played the first half.


DM: Brad


PCs (Players)
• Adrik, dwarf knight (Paul) – emissary of the mountain lands
• Luxius, eladrin wizard (Leo) – devotee of Corellon
• M.A.R.C. 01, warforged cleric (Ben) – self-proclaimed demigod of cutlery
• Carkoon, human rogue (Mark) – spymistress of Cormyr
• Fherul Hart, tiefling warlord (Chuck) – future queen of Impiltur
• Serbitar, human battlemind (me) – member of The Thirty (Abeir-Toril division)


[2 defenders, 2 leaders, 1 striker, 1 controller. The perfect 6-man party, if you ask me.]


[Brad (DM), Paul, Chuck, and I already played EPIC 4-1 at DDXP 2012. However, we liked it so much – and wanted the other three players to get a chance to play it – that we played it again.]


[Brad asked me to note: "any changes were made to present the re-players with surprises.  I certainly don't think my ideas were better than the original.  I am also making no changes to the two most important encounters since they are already soul-crushing, draining, terrifying, and exhilarating!"]


The adventure began in Myth Drannor – all of the PCs were invited to a special ceremony at which Coronal Ilsevele Miratar would set free several inanimate objects (spoons, ladles, chairs), much to M.A.R.C. 01’s delight. (The character worships Gond and believes that inanimate objects have souls and deserve to be free.) Each of the characters had his or her own reason to attend, as set forth by DM Brad in private communications.


Numerous noble elven and eladrin houses contributed their objects to the ritual, which would combine divination (to know where the objects were most needed) and teleportation or planar travel (to transport the objects to their new homes).


[At this point Ben joked that somewhere in the Nine Hells, a devil girl was having a bat mitzvah party and really needed a punch bowl.]


As the ritual concluded, it was interrupted by the voices of four inhabitants of Myth Drannor speaking every fourth word of an unpleasant greeting. Tsien Chang, the insane sorceress from CORE 1-12 The Sign of Four and villainess of the EPIC adventures, had tracked down the PCs.


A wave of magic washed over the assembled crowds, fusing several nearby innocents into horrible monstrosities. A eladrin and his mount became a centaur (“elataur"), three eladrin combined into a marilith (“eladrith"), and at least half-a-dozen elves and eladrin became a terrible amoeba-like creature with multiple pseudopods.
[picture: Myth Drannor Fight]
Spoiler: Show






[picture: Blob of Eladrin]

Spoiler: Show


 

Serbitar(*) reacted in horror at this turn of events – he cried out “Joinings!” and rushed to engage the gargantuan blob.


(*) Serbitar is the name of a character from the book Legend by David Gemmel. In that series, humans and animals can be combined by sorcery into a Joining, which is somewhat like a were-creature in D&D. In game terms, Serbitar has the Topaz Crusader epic destiny, which is focused on destroying the Far Realms and all aberrations. So this encounter was doubly horrific for Serbitar.


The party unleashed a variety of status effects on the blob (including weakened and dazed) while Serbitar kept it marked. The “eladrith” was briefly threatening, until Luxius stunned it. Meanwhile, Adrik handled the “elataur” with ease.


[Overall, this combat was not too challenging, but it wasn’t intended to be. Brad (the DM) added it to the beginning of the adventure to set the mood and give us a warm-up.]


[Carkoon, spymistress of Cormyr, says: " Immediately following combat, we learned that Coronal Ilsevele Miratar used us as bait to draw Tsien Chang out of hiding. The grand cutlery liberation ritual was an excuse to bring together three of the adventures who had been such a thorn in Tsien Chang's side. She could not help but make a mystical appearance in order to rub our face in our inability to stop her and otherwise monologue. The Coronal explained that Tsien had been using the power she stole in the previous adventures to cloak herself and her activities. By drawing Tsien Chang out, the Coronal was FINALLY able to track her down in Candlekeep ..."]


The PCs caught their breath, then looked skyward to see the flying ship Mistress of the Night and her captain, the skeleton Elyuro Panahq. Captain Panahq informed the PCs that Tsien Chang had been spotted at the library of Candlekeep, so the party departed Myth Drannor in haste.


At Candlekeep, the PCs found out that a woman using the suspicious pseudonym Ailarrali Lilarri (four letters, repeated four times) had just finished doing research on various topics. Each PC went to a different section of the library to follow up on these leads, except Adrik (dwarf knight) who tagged along with Luxius the wizard.


M.A.R.C 01 decided to do a vanity search on his name in the religious archives. He was shocked to discover that not only was there a book about him, but that it contained detailed information about his capabilities. A check of the user edit list revealed the names of several villains of the Realms who had been defeated during M.A.R.C. 01’s ascent to demigod-hood – yet they had somehow found the wherewithal to compile this Wikipedia-like listing.


While the party was spread out doing research (or massaging his own ego in M.A.R.C. 01’s case), there arose a great hue and cry from the monks of the library. Strange, fiery creatures teleported into the building, intent on arson and murder. (And possibly also jaywalking if they ever got outside.)


In this combat encounter, the PCs did not initially have the benefit of being close together. Furthermore, to prevent the fiery creatures from burning up the books – books that contained valuable information about Tsien’s defenses – each PC in a book room had to spend a minor action each round to activate that room’s Sigil of Protection, which unfortunately also nullified the PC’s resistances and made him vulnerable 10 to all damage.


Serbitar was in the Intake room where he faced one magma elemental and two fire archons. One of the battlemind’s weaknesses is minimal ability to attack more than one target per round. Fortunately, Carkoon the rogue was nearby (questioning the monks using Streetwise) and used Knockout on the magma elemental, which allowed Serbitar to clear out the minions.


Fherul, the ranged warlord, was unhappy to find herself in the Prophecies room with a magma elemental. Thinking quickly, she used a massive push power to blow the thing completely out of the room, then stood two squares outside the door so it could not get past her easily. Fherul managed to shoot-and-scoot for a few rounds until Carkoon could finish her business at Intake and arrive to assist. (Poor Carkoon got petrified twice by the magma elementals’ death burst. Such are the perils of being a melee-only rogue.)


Luxius and Adrik faced two magma elementals and two fire archons in the Magic and Alchemy room. Luxius hemmed in the fire-based creatures with a wall of cold while Adrik kept them within his defender aura so they couldn’t take out their anger on the wizard.


M.A.R.C. 01 was alone in the Deities and Demigods room where Jalm (the efreet lord) and a few fire archons appeared. Jalm almost filled the room with fire effects including his fiery wall (20 squares) and rolling flames (burst 3). M.A.R.C. 01, the protector of inanimate objects, dutifully activated the Sigil of Protection every round, but got horribly burned by Jalm and the archons. Towards the end of the combat, Carkoon, Serbitar, and Fherul came to M.A.R.C. 01’s assistance – and not a moment too soon, from the warforged’s point of view.


Once Jalm was downed and disappeared into a pile of ash, Serbitar rushed over to the aid of Luxius and Adrik, declaring, “I’m sure that efreet lord is gone for good.” (This was me the player being a bit sarcastic, because I knew out-of-character that Jalm definitely would return thanks to his ring of the phoenix. Of course, my PC did not know that in character, so Serbitar had no reason to hang around Jalm’s ashes.)


Next round, Jalm re-appeared in a burst of flame (“Not again!” cried M.A.R.C. 01). But with three PCs (the warfoged, plus Carkoon and Fherul) to face him, the efreet didn’t last long. He was beaten into unconsciousness and then Intimidated into spilling his guts about what he knew of Tsien’s plans – which was next to nothing, as the fire creatures were merely hired muscle.


[This combat dealt a tremendous amount of damage, especially because the PCs were conscientious about activating the Sigils of Protection – that “vulnerable 10 all” adds up fast. The fire archons were deceptively dangerous. They’re minions, but they have a deadly accurate ranged attack that targets Reflex, which is generally the lowest defense for many defenders and leaders. That attack deals effectively 41 damage if the vulnerability is in place – 11 (+10) fire damage and 10 (+10) ongoing fire.]


In the aftermath of the Candlekeep battle, the party was pleased to find that not a single book or scroll had burned. The PCs made notes on all the relevant details about Tsien and her research. Many of those notes pointed to the lost city of Myth Dyraalis, so the group boarded the Mistress of the Night once again and set off.


Usually skill challenges to get from point A to point B are routine, but not this time. This time, almost everyone in the party had terrible luck with his dice. Four PCs ended up with no choice but to bull their way through the curtain of blue fire that surrounded Myth Dyraalis. The specific (temporary) spellscars were:


• Luxius – Whenever the PC spends a healing surge, he gains ongoing 20 radiant and fire damage (save ends).
• Adrik – The PC takes a -2 penalty to all attack rolls.
• M.A.R.C. 01 – The PC grants combat advantage to all enemies.
• Serbitar – Whenever the PC heals, they regain only half as many hit points.


[M.A.R.C. 01 wasn’t too badly hurt by his spellscar because he has a feat that prevents most of the negative effects of granting combat advantage. Adrik stolidly endured his reduced accuracy, but it had to hurt. Luxius and Serbitar managed to avoid the need to spend healing surges in the city of Myth Dyraalis itself, but they were terribly constrained during the next fight in the Garden of Seven Mysteries.]


Once inside Myth Dyraalis, the party quickly deduced that everyone in the city had been turned to stone at the instant that the spellplague hit. In the town’s central square, the PCs discovered huge piles of treasure, including two items that pinged as epicly powerful on Luxius’s constantly active detect magic effect. Intrigued, M.A.R.C. 01 stepped forward to examine a fountain filled with gold – at which point the coinage tried (but failed) to dominate him, and several creatures emerged.


[Brad changed this combat significantly. Instead of facing a mated pair of dragons, the PCs faced a city golem (literally made of chunks of buildings and streets), an energy being, and 2 gargoyles.]


Most of the battle took place near the central fountain, where Serbitar and Adrik locked down the golem and energy being with defender powers. One of the gargoyles attempted to engage Luxius and Fherul, but the eladrin wizard summoned a chain devil to keep the gargoyle occupied. Everyone managed to avoid ending his turn adjacent to the piles of treasure, so no one got dominated.


[I think Brad removed so much control from this encounter that it wasn’t threatening enough, although as a player I certainly appreciated my PC not being slid around or restrained by the dragons.]


After the city guardians were smashed to rubble or dispersed, the party set about efficiently looting the place. Fherul was pleased to discover the great hero’s gauntlets, which she gladly equipped. [Those are nice gauntlets! +2 attacks when you AP, and if that attack deals damage, gain temp HP equal to your surge value.]


Avandra’s ring wasn’t quite as sexy, so Luxius dumped it in his bag of holding. (I propose that we create a running joke that any magic item not immediately put to use ends up lost somewhere in Luxius’s bag.)


Onwards to the Garden of Seven Mysteries, where Sehanine had placed her deific power when she decided to fade from the world. Once again, Tsien got there before the party, and before anyone could do anything the Shou sorceress drained one of the statues containing Sehanine’s power. In addition to Tsien herself, the bad guys consisted of 3 storm archon dervishes, 3 invokers, and 2 gorgons.


[pictures: Garden of Seven Mysteries]
Spoiler: Show









  


Initiative was rolled, and thanks to Fherul’s insane initiative buffs, the party would act before any of the monsters – except Tsien, although we didn’t know that yet. Carkoon decided to use a power to give herself an initiative of 69 (huh huh (shut up, Beavis)). The daring rogue raced all the way across the garden to one of the statues, used a Bull Rush (!!!) to move the dervish away from it, and claimed its elfin goodness in the name of Cormyr.


[In Carkoon's own words: "When all was said and done, Carkoon opened the encounter by slamming into one of the closer storm archon dervishes with Bull Rush in order to knock it back a square and then absorb a statue. I pictured a full-on, kung-fu leap into the air, feet first, which sent her foe stumbling back out sheer disbelief. The highly dextrous and not particularly strong Carkoon ONLY pulled this off because she attached with her action point (rather than her standard action), which gave her a +9 to her attack bonus and her "Seize the Moment" power gave her an additional attack bonus on top of its initiative and speed bonuses. Even with all of the stacking bonuses and a roll of 15 on the die, she still barely pulled it off. I haven't been so proud of her since rushing across the entire battle field at the beginning of the encounter to start the Corellon cleansing ritual, all the while "impersonating" Gruumsh with her hat of disguise (during EPIC 3-1)."]


Tsien acted next and effortlessly drained another statue, making the score Evil B*tch 2, Good Guys 1.


With a heroic shout, Serbitar leapt into battle against one of the gorgons. He used a doubly augmented lodestone lure to pull it away from the statue, which utterly failed thanks to the gorgon’s immunity to forced movement. What about the prone effect from lodestone lure? Nope; the gorgon was immune to proning as well. Curses!


Fortunately, the rest of the party was able to make up for Serbitar’s blunder, and overall we finished the drain-the-statues game with a score of Good Guys 4, Evil B*tch 3.


However, that is glossing over the truly epic amounts of damage thrown around in this fight.


Tsien herself was frighteningly effective, as befits a monster (or Hazard) of her potency. The PCs quickly figured out (via knowledge checks and liberal DM hints) not to bother attacking Tsien. The PCs also quickly figured out that she would drain their temporary hit points, which was a major bummer for both defenders, who relied on liberal temporary hit point cushions as part of their shticks.


The storm archon invokers, with their hard-hitting ranged attacks, were considered so dangerous that at various times four of the PCs ventured up to the bridge to combat them – thanks to the mass fly spell cast by Luxius for those character who didn’t have airstriders.


Unfortunately, by leaving the ground-based creatures (dervishes and gorgons) alone, the party allowed too much damage to accrue to Fherul and M.A.R.C. 01.


Fherul had to bust out her combination of reorient the axis (everyone shifts 9) plus a power that lets everyone attack as a minor action for one round – naturally all this was done while the party was already under the effects of “reroll all attacks and choose the higher result” and various buffs to attack and damage rolls. To top it off, Fherul rolled a crit on her own attack, which thanks to the Legendary Sovereign epic destiny set off a party-wide cycle of basic attacks. When the dust cleared, three enemies were dead, which drastically cut down the amount of damage the PCs took over the remainder of the fight.


Both Luxius and Serbitar were forced to spend healing surges during the combat, despite both of them possessing spellscars that made healing painful or less effective. Still, painful and less effective healing was better than no healing.


After the longest three or four rounds of the PCs’ lives, the Mistress of the Night arrived for a daring rescue. Or it would have, if Tsien hadn’t teleported onto the skyship, dominated the entire crew, and forced Captain Panahq to sail away without the PCs.


In a rage, the party crushed the remaining opposition and then sank to ground in exhaustion.


[This encounter was just as brutal as I remembered it from my first experience with EPIC 4-1. The defenders could have done a better job defending (i.e., kept monsters off Fherul and M.A.R.C. 01), but the players/PCs seemed to have a tacit agreement that the best way to survive was to kill enemies as quickly as possible.


Interestingly, not a single PC dropped to 0 or fewer hit points. Chalk that up to the mass amounts of healing output by the two leaders.


Here’s another interesting thing that happened, or almost happened, during this encounter:


Serbitar contemplated using Lodestone Lure while in midair near the bridge. Lodestone Lure states that the enemy cannot move to any square not adjacent to the battlemind; when fully augmented it also prones the target. Normally a creature in midair will fall if knocked prone (unless it has hover).


But as of Rules Compendium, “move” means “Any instance of movement, whether it is done willingly or unwillingly. Whenever a creature, an object, or an effect leaves a square to enter another, it is moving.”


So would a non-hovering, flying creature that gets knocked prone and pulled adjacent to a battlemind with Lodestone Lure be able to fall? Or would it remain magnetized to the battlemind, as the flavor of Lodestone Lure suggests? I didn’t want to discuss this rules nightmare at the table, so I chose not to use that power in that situation.]


[Carkoon again: "Forcing the PCs to utilize all of their resources, including standard actions and action points to free up and absorb statues, during the first couple of rounds made this encounter all that much more punishing. All of the damage and conditions that we would have otherwise dropped on our foes in order to contain their effectiveness was negated. Add to that Tsien being a nearly unstoppable hazard with two sets of actions each round, it was a meat grinder!!!


Only Fherul, who avoided the statue challenge in order to use her powers to set up the rest of the party with free attacks and shifts, allowed us to drop three foes by the second round. Without our kick-ass warlord, I cannot imagine how much more insanely brutal it would have been. Exhilarating, yes, but completely insane!!!"]


Before the PCs departed from the Garden of Seven Mysteries, they received a vision from the vestige of Sehanine. The goddess directed them to journey throughout Faerun to gather up armies to attack I’Cath, Tsien’s island stronghold. Each PC set off for the region or country most amenable to his or her influence:


• Adrik, dwarf knight, went to Baldur’s Gate and gathered an army of mercenaries.
• Luxius, eladrin wizard, returned to Myth Drannor where he used his position as Wizard of the Spiral Tower to gather a force of elf and eladrin arcanists.
• M.A.R.C. 01, warforged cleric, headed to Waterdeep where he used his membership in the Heirs of Mirt to gather numerous current and former adventurers.
• Carkoon, human rogue, made a private nighttime visit to Lord Erzoured of Cormyr. (As Brad put it, “Carkoon doesn’t get an extended rest, but she does spend the night.") She received the best equipped troops in Cormyr for her, ehem, services.
• Fherul Hart, tiefling warlord, used her position as Legendary Sovereign of Impiltur to gather that country’s armies.
• Serbitar, human battlemind, initially went back to Myth Drannor where he had been living, then headed into the Dalelands. He gathered those fit to become part of The Thirty along with many other worshippers of The Source.


[Carkoon's personal statement regarding her, ehem, escapades in Cormyr: "Carkoon totally blew her initial skill check to raise an army in Cormyr, forcing her to improvise. She negotiated for "The Kiss of Lolth" as a story reward in EPIC3-3 -- two auto-successes at a social based skill check. Who knew she'd need it so quickly? If using "The Kiss of Lolth" to seduce Lord Erzoured with a night of passion is what it took, then for Faerûn's sake, it is what it took!"]


[Carkoon further wishes to let the following be known: "Tsien Chang has raised the ire of Carkoon like no enemy before her. Even Carkoon's arch nemeses, the Netherese, have not gotten her dander up like Tsien. This has moved FAR BEYOND the bitter taste left in Carkoon's mouth following "The Sign of Four." The Mistress of the Night was the final straw...


Tossing both arms into the air, with measureless imprecations, Carkoon shouts, "She tasks me! She tasks me, and I shall have her! I'll chase her round the Moons of Nibia, and round the Antares Maelstrom, and round Perdition's flames before I give her up!!!"]


[Carkoon is apparently a fan of the Wrath of Khan version of Ahab's famous speech from Moby ****.] [hahah, the message board software censors the name of a great novel]


All of the forces journeyed by moonbridge to assault I’Cath:


• Adrik’s mercenaries withstood the First Wave of the attack. (Endurance)
• Luxius’s arcanists took on the Tower Assault using magic against magic. (Arcana)
• M.A.R.C. 01’s adventurers entered through the catacombs of I’Cath, fighting off undead. (Religion) (*)
• Carkoon’s Cormyrian forces snuck around in a Flanking Maneuver. (Stealth)
• Fherul’s armies of Impiltur smashed the Main Gates. (Athletics)
• Serbitar’s Source-worshippers headed through the Forests of I’Cath. (Nature) (**)


(*) Brad added some addition skill checks to the official options.
(**) Yay, Background skill training!


And that’s where we left off, with the outcome of the assault hanging in the balance.

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10 months ago  ::  Aug 03, 2012 - 5:40AM #77
Uthrac
Date Joined: Aug 10, 2007
Posts: 1,556
This is a great write-up, thanks for posting!

One of the great things about splitting "over two days of marathon gaming" is the opportunity to add an extra transition encounter at the beginning, and not feeling rushed (allowing ample time for roleplaying and social gaming).

I hope you enjoy the second half as much as you enjoyed the first! 
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director

Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 04, 2012 - 11:06AM #78
Joshua_Randall
Date Joined: Oct 7, 2003
Posts: 689
[After a long delay, here's the second half of the story I started two posts above.]

EPIC 4-1 Shooting the Moon, part 2 of 2

On Saturday, August 25, 2012, we completed EPIC 4-1 Shooting the Moon. See above for the first half. This post describes what happened when we played the second half.

DM: Brad

PCs (Players)
  • Adrik, dwarf knight (Paul) – emissary of the mountain lands
  • Luxius, eladrin wizard (Leo) – devotee of Corellon
  • M.A.R.C. 01, warforged cleric (Ben) – self-proclaimed demigod of cutlery
  • Carkoon, human rogue (Mark) – spymistress of Cormyr
  • Fherul Hart, tiefling warlord (Chuck) – future queen of Impiltur
  • Serbitar, human battlemind (me) – member of The Thirty (Abeir-Toril division)


The second half of the adventure commenced with the assault on Tsien’s island of I’Cath. Thanks to copious resource expenditure, all of the PCs were successful. Half the party maxed all the way out, while the other half was at least successful enough to claim the ability to call down a barrage of arrows as a minor action.

The combat to enter Tsien’s fortress seemed much more difficult than it should have been. The party was split into three pairs, so we couldn’t all gang up on one monster ("focus fire"). Also, Brad (DM) modified the minions so that when certain ones of them died, a burst of psychic energy could cause their killer to fall unconscious for a round.

Unfortunately, Fherul (tiefling warlord) was the first to find this out the hard way, so she spent the critical first few rounds of combat lying on her back [insert salacious joke here] rather than granting everyone extra attacks at +Muchismo attack and +Grandissimo damage.

That left Adrik (dwarf knight) alone in the center of the map, where he activated his defender’s aura and locked down a few of the non-minion enemies.

Meanwhile, Carkoon (human rogue) and Luxius (eladrin wizard) appeared on the right-hand side of the map. Luxius teleported onto the roof of Tsien’s fortress and rained down destruction upon the hapless enemies who could not easily reach him.

At one point, Luxius was struck with a power that forced him to make a melee attack on his next turn. For most wizards, this would be a problem. For a Wizard of the Spiral Tower, it was no big deal. But because Luxius is extra cool, he opened a mini-portal on the roof that allowed him to attack through it versus a ground-based enemy.

Carkoon danced around the battlefield and provoked many opportunity attacks. Foolish minions tried to hit Carkoon, but when they couldn’t, they died due to Shadow Assassin’s Riposte (paragon path level 11 feature). Carkoon ended up taking a lot of damage because none of the defenders were nearby to protect her, but she hung in there.

On the other side of the map, M.A.R.C. 01 (warforged cleric) and Serbitar (human battlemind) had a surprising amount of trouble with the enemies. Serbitar was able to use Lightning Rush to protect M.A.R.C. 01, and M.A.R.C. 01 was able to use Polearm Gamble to kill a few minions that wandered too close. But many of the enemies had reach, and they all hit hard, so both characters took a lot of damage.

Eventually the PCs wore down the monsters, but this fight lasted a lot longer than it seems like it should have. Splitting up the party, and having Fherul lose a few turns, definitely hurt us.

With the defeat of her generals, Tsien’s armies failed their morale checks… wait, we don’t have morale in D&D any more. Well, the enemy armies stopped fighting. The PCs left their armies outside the fortress and headed inside.

When the party got to about the middle of the entry hall, many enemies teleported in to face us: Tsien’s three remaining daughters (Hate, Scream, and Spite), four golems, and about a dozen conscripted Shou troops who clearly didn’t want to face the wrath of Epic-tier PCs. The room itself lit up with a multitude of colors; each quadrant of the room imposed vulnerability to one type of damage while granting resistant to another.

Luxius (wizard) completely defined this combat with a wall of fire placed such that it cut off Spite, two of the golems, and all of the minions from the party. The minions obviously could not pass through the wall. The golems eventually did pass through, and Spite was able to use powers through the two golems already on the PCs’ side of the wall [a modification that Brad (DM) made], but the wall was still brilliant at carving the combat into a nicely manageable chunk. It was a good respite from the beating the PCs took outside the fortress.

The other funny thing about this combat was that Carkoon (rogue) used her hat of disguise to impersonate Nightingale, Tsien’s fourth daughter, who died during Core1-11 The Sign of Four. Brad (DM) ruled that the other siblings would be confused by the disguise, so they wouldn’t attack "Nightingale" unless she attacked them first. Carkoon used several invisibility granting powers to hide where "Nightingale’s" attacks were coming from, so she spent the entire battle unscathed.

Once the party defeated two of the three sisters, the remaining one (Spite) offered to call off the attack if the PCs spared her and her minions. The PCs agreed, and learned from Spite that Tsien had recently returned from a portal that led to another world where the angel Karadrach – whom (some of the PCs) thought they had defeated in EPIC3-1 – was working with corrupted versions of the Words of Creation.

[discontinuity…]

[So here it is weeks later and I have not completed my story. Because I hate when people start a story and don’t finish it, I’m going to force myself to finish this. I’ll just give a brief overview.]

The encounter with the holy warriors of Corendath was a bit of a mess. Some PCs wanted to negotiate and some wanted to fight, so we did a bit of both. Luxius (wizard) walled off the invokers for a few rounds, which bought us time to beat down the paladins and avengers enough for them to have no choice other than to listen to us.

And that brings us to the confrontation with Karadrach and his demon allies. I wanted to enjoy this combat, but I simply did not. The runes (corrupted Words of Creation) that prevent the PCs from using their abilities are too heavy handed for me to enjoy. In particular, by shutting off immediates you basically invalidate entire classes and roles – in my case, a Battlemind who cannot Lightning Rush, Mind Spike, or make OAs is worthless as a defender.

4e D&D has a problem, and that is that it is too easy for the PCs to trivialize encounters by piling status conditions on the monsters such that the monsters never get to act, or can only act ineffectually. The solutions have been to create dingus eggs (like the runes in this combat) the protect the monsters for a few rounds.

Unfortunately, I think the cure is as bad as the disease. The players want to use their PCs’ cool powers – and combats like this one basically say "no". Saying no is not very interesting. D&D needs a way to say "yes, and…" and have it actually work. In combat.

To sum up: we suffered through several rounds of ineffectualness and would have died if Fherul (warlord) hadn’t pulled off another amazing round of healing plus buffing plus positioning. Once we whittled down the demons, we were finally able to turn our attention to the runes, shut a few down, get in Karadrach’s face, and kill him. Twice. But unfortunately this fight felt like a grind, not an exciting finish to an otherwise great adventure.

We showed the Corendathians the truth, and encouraged them to follow us to Faerun to take up the fight against evil. Then we stepped through the portal and into --  what the heck? A dusty, abandoned palace and the bones of our shattered armies? How did this happen?

To be continued in EPIC4-2….

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8 months ago  ::  Oct 12, 2012 - 5:46PM #79
Dodecahedron
Date Joined: Jan 26, 2005
Posts: 960
There is an EPIC15 story award in both EPIC3-3 and EPIC4-1. Is this correct?
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8 months ago  ::  Oct 12, 2012 - 8:14PM #80
Keithric
  • Senior Volunteer Community Lead
Date Joined: Aug 19, 2007
Posts: 5,149
Oops. That was due to a last minute change, since they were so close to each other.

Thankfully I doubt we'll refer to E3-3's award ever, since it's just "get some gear".
Keith Richmond
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
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