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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 8:24AM
#91
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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One focused story arc where you level as the campaign expects
Yuck. This sounds like an "author-centered" story rather than "PCs-centered." The other extreme (12 story areas?) is too much and results in a disjoined adventure feel. (Especially with just one part of each story released every several months.)
I don't think number of adventures has to correlate to the "living" and PC-centered aspect. Initial LFR had tons of arcs and practically no PC-centric feel. LG had tons of regions, each with roughly 8-9 adventures a year, and the amount of PC-centric varied from weak to off-the-charts.
In all honesty, I really dislike *in game* rewards for DMing. For one thing, it hardly rewards the person who loves to DM. For another, it is hard to balance, even more so when you run a lot of games and only playing a few time. Thirdly, how are you going to check the DM actually did run the game.
We've heard many times on these boards from DMs that "fall behind" relative to the rest of their gaming group and then feel they have to choose between playing and DMing. Many DMs like DMing, but also like playing. A frequent situation is for a DM to like playing more but have the understanding that they should contribute, so they do. But, if contributing a bit more than others means their PC suffers...
So, it does reward a number of DMs. Maybe most. The hardcore DM? No. Living Spycraft had a fairly insane system toward the end where every time you ran a mod you gained XP (less after the first run). The highest level PCs were all DMs... and the PCs were basically unplayed. It was really just about bragging that your PC was higher level than the PCs that had played all the mods (no replay was allowed). Obviously we don't want that (to be honest, LSpy was small enough it was probably overall a positive system).
For people that just DM you need true DM rewards. The best model I've seen is the LG reward system with minis and templates and adventures and other things like that. The sweet spot of LFR rewards was also pretty good. The best reward in my mind is a DDI discount or coupons for discounts on product. That's the easiest effective motivator of which I can think. There could be non-physical rewards, but that demands a world that matters. In the Living Greyhawk days I can imagine that rewards like getting to design a building would have been a very huge reward in Geoff. But those are hard to administer and require a very living campaign.
We should not worry, in this day and age, on verifying DMs. If a person DMs a fair bit and says they have a level x PC... shouldn't we trust them? As has been pointed out before, all records can be falsified and the ultimate verification is the circle of peers. We don't need to worry about this issue, any more than we worry about whether a random player goes to the LFR site, downloads all the mods, and claims to have an Epic level PC.
I think DM equity is a big issue the next campaign should tackle. You want casual DMs to feel DMing is a boon, not a hindrance. You want players to want to DM periodically, so they refresh other DMs. You want hardcore DMs to have bragging rights.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 8:44AM
#92
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We should not worry, in this day and age, on verifying DMs. If a person DMs a fair bit and says they have a level x PC... shouldn't we trust them? As has been pointed out before, all records can be falsified and the ultimate verification is the circle of peers. We don't need to worry about this issue, any more than we worry about whether a random player goes to the LFR site, downloads all the mods, and claims to have an Epic level PC.
I never said that it is the claiming of an unearned reward that worries me. It is when that reward would make an equal level PC significantly more powerful that worries me since it has a direct impact on the fun of the people at a table. For example, a player claiming he played Adventure X, earning max xp, gp and item x (all part of the official adventure) is at no bigger advantage to the player who actually played it and earned those things earnestly. Both PCs are equally powerful. Uthrac though was talking about reroll certificates, access to unique races (which are not particularly unique if you earn them through DMing), one time bonusses to attack rolls, free reroll of a save and so on. Those things will increase the power of a PC significantly compared to that of a similar level PC whose player never DMed.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 9:15AM
#93
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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Those things will increase the power of a PC significantly compared to that of a similar level PC whose player never DMed.
Oh, right. Agreed. A DM should not end up with the strongest PC. For a ton of reasons I would prefer that any certs be story aspects rather than power-ups. If adventures have several certs based on actions taken and the DM gets to choose, that's often a bit stronger but still in line with what you see at the table. The last thing we want is to encourage something like marathon bad DMing with replay by a group so they all have the Sword of Kas.
With Ashes of Athas we/I stole from Living Spycraft a bit. We allow DMs to either replay something they ran or to get credit as if they played. They can pick the story wards they earned as if they had played it. This policy was used because in a small campaign we didn't want any disincentive for a small group of players that wants to run the games at home and take turns DMing, or for a DM that wants to get DM rewards at a big con but also wants to play... they can do both.
But, I still think a lot of that can apply to a larger campaign. The core truth to me is to have the right incentives in place and avoid any disincentives to DMs, especially new/casual ones.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 9:18AM
#94
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2008
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We should not worry, in this day and age, on verifying DMs. If a person DMs a fair bit and says they have a level x PC... shouldn't we trust them? As has been pointed out before, all records can be falsified and the ultimate verification is the circle of peers. We don't need to worry about this issue, any more than we worry about whether a random player goes to the LFR site, downloads all the mods, and claims to have an Epic level PC.
I never said that it is the claiming of an unearned reward that worries me. It is when that reward would make an equal level PC significantly more powerful that worries me since it has a direct impact on the fun of the people at a table. For example, a player claiming he played Adventure X, earning max xp, gp and item x (all part of the official adventure) is at no bigger advantage to the player who actually played it and earned those things earnestly. Both PCs are equally powerful. Uthrac though was talking about reroll certificates, access to unique races (which are not particularly unique if you earn them through DMing), one time bonusses to attack rolls, free reroll of a save and so on. Those things will increase the power of a PC significantly compared to that of a similar level PC whose player never DMed.
I don't think it would be too bad, as long as you couldn't use them faster than you could acquire them: that is, you shouldn't be able to save up a bunch of these rewards and then blow them all in one SPEC or ADCP.
As a player, DM, and organizer, I'd much rather deal with modest power creep of that nature than handle money.
I killed Aleena.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 9:30AM
#95
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2005
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I think a system I might like to see for rewarding DM would be one in which you collect points/certs/stickers/happy faces whatever, and when you get enough of them, you can help craft something in the world (with admin approval). So those who are invested can affect the story in some way (like naming things). If handled well, i think it would promote more people to Dm because they could be more apart of the story/world.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 9:32AM
#96
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2004
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I think a system I might like to see for rewarding DM would be one in which you collect points/certs/stickers/happy faces whatever, and when you get enough of them, you can help craft something in the world (with admin approval). So those who are invested can affect the story in some way (like naming things). If handled well, i think it would promote more people to Dm because they could be more apart of the story/world.
I for one strongly support the Living Risk: Legacy campaign, and plan to use naming privileges inappropriately at the first available opportunity 
John du Bois
Living Forgotten Realms Writing Director, Netheril story area
Follow me on The Twitter: @JohnduBois
Follow my presence on The Intertubes: johncdubois.wordpress.com
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 10:20AM
#97
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Date Joined:
Aug 10, 2007
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What was the special reward for double-duty BI DMs at DDXP?
A custom award assignable to one of your PCs with a very minor mechanical benefit. (Something like +1 on saving throws from effects by followers of a specific evil god.)
The gesture and acknowledgment was far more valuable than the award itself. 
Dan Anderson
@EpicUthrac
Living Forgotten Realms Calimshan Writing Director
Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Meet me at TotalConfusion:
http://www.totalcon.com/RolePlaying.html
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1 year ago ::
Apr 18, 2012 - 2:06PM
#98
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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I thought the reward to both players and DMs of the BI at D&DXP was immunity to admins role-playing whale-leviathans?  True story: after our table hurt one of those creatures badly, Greg Marks told our table we couldn't attack it any more. So we snuck around to another table along his path and tried to attack it again. He's a quick one and would not be fooled. Great laughs, though!
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 5:41AM
#99
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Date Joined:
Mar 16, 2006
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I think a system I might like to see for rewarding DM would be one in which you collect points/certs/stickers/happy faces whatever, and when you get enough of them, you can help craft something in the world (with admin approval). So those who are invested can affect the story in some way (like naming things). If handled well, i think it would promote more people to Dm because they could be more apart of the story/world.
I for one strongly support the Living Risk: Legacy campaign, and plan to use naming privileges inappropriately at the first available opportunity
Although this might have been a tongue-in-cheek comment, I strongly support it. We could do worse than consider GM rewards as similar to kickstarter rewards for boardgames. In a sense the GM really is ensuring the game gets off the ground, gets the nextrelease, upgrade, or whatever. Kickstarter rewards are very often ...
- Naming rights. Simple and cheap. Always under company approval. Everyone loves this and it's just way cool
- Get your name on the box. Why not keep a roll of honor on the main website for the campaign, assuming it can be done automatically via online adventure logging.
- Free stuff for the game that makes no real difference. You get to play a race that really should be rare in the campaign world. That race is no better -- often worse -- thanmaterials
- Promo materials that you are already making for other purpose go to top GMs. This is expensive, if only shipping costs, so a rare option -- or give the GMs "options to buy" an item that no-one else can and recover costs.
Applying this to current LFR, as you star GMing first you see your name (or alias) on the web site, which is cool. After a while you get a cert that allows you to play a warforged, and when you play one at a con, people ask how you got allowed that and you explain and people immediately want to GM more. After a longer while, you get a note from HQ asking if you can give them a paragon char who might work as a bodyguard, and that character has a walk-in part in a future mod. Later again, you get a special pre-order form allowing you to get some WOTC goodies a week ahead of general release.
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1 year ago ::
Apr 20, 2012 - 9:42AM
#100
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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I wish we had thought of that with the race for Ashes of Athas... and maybe we'll still steal that idea. Dark Sun has some obvious rare races, which we have been releasing through Death Certificates. That keeps the ratio of iconic races to rare races right. Letting DMs choose, regardless of certs, would be a cool reason to judge and we could add to the list as the Death Certs are released. Hmm...
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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