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2 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2011 - 11:03AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2009
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I ran a search and saw that while there was a place to submit results and a skill challenge question, there wasn't anywhere an actual thread to give feedback. I want to like this adventure. It had interesting fights, rewarded mobility, had a unique and interesting skill challenge, and a great, epic story. This should have been an experience where I came out thinking "wow, what a great mod. That was awesome!" Unfortunately, once again, a conscious decision was made to reward those who read mods ahead of time before playing them. In this case... Spoiler:
Show
...an extra 2800 xp is provided to those who elected to help the psychopathic Tsien Chiang in CORE 2-11.
Repeatedly, the players are told by the Coronal that they must do what they think is right in CORE 2-11. Our party believed that someone who tried to slay a god, Corellon, was too dangerous to be freed. In this case, the devil we knew, Tsien, was far worse than the mysterious, ambiguous threat described in CORE 2-11. Thrym, on the other hand, had been content to sit peacefully in the Primordial Chaos for eons, and while he was clearly evil, seemed to pose no threat to the Realms. We followed the Coronal's instructions and did what we thought was right.
I'm okay with the fact that this caused some other horrible threat to the Realms. I don't know if that threat will ever see the light of day in another mod, but I hope if it does, those players who released Tsien will have some terrible consequence for their decision. I very much doubt she is going to simply take up knitting and feeding stray kittens with her newfound freedom.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2011 - 11:28AM
#2
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If you played CORE 2-11, this should not have come as a surprise to you - the cert for CORE 2-11 says that you only start the quest if you free Hsien Chiang over Thrym. Your quest in that mod was not "do what you think is right" - it was "get this question answered". Freeing her is the only way to do that.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2011 - 12:11PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2009
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If you played CORE 2-11, this should not have come as a surprise to you - the cert for CORE 2-11 says that you only start the quest if you free Hsien Chiang over Thrym. Your quest in that mod was not "do what you think is right" - it was "get this question answered". Freeing her is the only way to do that.
Oh really?
From CORE 2-11 The Sign of Four, Coronal Miritar, page 8.
“So, we want you to enter the Elemental Chaos, and travel to I’Cath, an area in the frost titan domain of Simbulwinter. Once there, find Tsien Chiang in her palace, and try to get her to part with the lore we need. We know she is evil, so be careful. Judge for yourself what you are willing to do to get the information. We know it will be of utmost importance, but in the end the decision of what, or who, is the bigger threat is your decision to make.”
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2 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2011 - 12:24PM
#4
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Yes. Really.
“So, we want you to enter the Elemental Chaos, and travel to I’Cath, an area in the frost titan domain of Simbulwinter. Once there, find Tsien Chiang in her palace, and try to get her to part with the lore we need. We know she is evil, so be careful. Judge for yourself what you are willing to do to get the information. We know it will be of utmost importance, but in the end the decision of what, or who, is the bigger threat is your decision to make.”
The fact that you chose not to deal with her means you chose not to complete the task you were assigned. And you have perfectly defensible reasons, but it was a decision you made. No back-sies. This is one of those "Meaningful Choices" that the Meaningful Choices thread mentions.
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2 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2011 - 12:43PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 17, 2007
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-stuff snipped-
Unfortunately, once again, a conscious decision was made to reward those who read mods ahead of time before playing them. In this case...
Spoiler:
Show
...an extra 2800 xp is provided to those who elected to help the psychopathic Tsien Chiang in CORE 2-11.
-more stuff snipped-
So essentially, had you read the mods ahead of time you would have gone with the mechanically superior (debatable, but not important  ) choice, rather than what your character(s) felt was right? Not that that is necessarily wrong or anything, just curious.
While I can certainly understand the annoyance, I think I can assure you that this was done without malice. I am convinced the author's reasoning was purely story based as it is in most if not all of these cases. Oh and I have some trouble believing there is some great conspiracy aimed at getting people to pre-read adventures
Oh and two completely different views.. based on the same paragraph. I think the author deserves some kudos for that.
To DME, or not to DME: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous powergaming, Or to take arms against a sea of Munchkins, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;No more;
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2 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2011 - 2:40PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2009
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I'm not asking for backsies. My character can look himself in the mirror still, wheras others shouldn't be able to. More ranting in spoiler block. Spoiler:
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I'm pointing out that our party of adventurers did what I believe is the unquestionably right thing in preventing a horrible, epic level, insane lich queen who once tried to kill Corellon from returning to Faerun instead of of releasing her to possibly weaken some nebulous, unknown future threat. And on whose information would we have released her? The same insane psychotic lich queen, that of her dead ghost daughter who had been exposed to a mind altering grief tree for centuries, and of course the Coronal herself - the eladrin queen who consistantly exposes her people to extreme danger by raising a "mythal" which prevents eladrin from using their own racial powers to defend themselves.
The only logical argument why those who released Tsien Chiang should receive extra experience that I can see is that it represents learning from ones mistakes.
The more I think about it, it's not the "mechanical penalty" that bothers me. At this point in my character's career - extra XP isn't going to help him as much as the extra gold from doing an extra module will when he hits the EPIC tier. So there really is no mechanical benefit in the long run.
It does, however, really grate on me that this extra xp seems to be an acknowledgement that releasing yet another supervillian into Faerun was the right thing to do, just as other quest benefits reward you for doing the right thing over multiple modules.
Geh, and we had to let Mirabeta live while we were at it. 
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2 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2011 - 5:18PM
#7
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Date Joined:
May 11, 2005
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JRedGiant1 is right that the party was told to do what they thought best. Getting the answer is a hoped for result - but the coronal agrees that if the price is too highh, it shouldn't be paid. However, while you can make that decisison, to complete the quest (stop the Heresy), you have to get the answer (otherwise you cannot succeed). You can still continue the tale, but you can't get a full victory (in CORE2-12). Mecanically, you lose on xp because you do not reach that goal, but I never considered getting less xp a high price for doing the right thing. The extra xp is definitely not an acknowledgement for doing the right thing. Its should be noted by the way that: Spoiler:
Show
Tsien didn't try to kill Corellon.
and Spoiler:
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You are free to kill Mirabeta.
Again - just because someone wants her alive doen't mean you have to follow through.
Gomez
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2 years ago ::
Sep 07, 2011 - 10:53PM
#8
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Date Joined:
Jan 13, 2004
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The only reason Thrym has been trying to find a way to destroy Tsien Chiang ever since she arrived at Simbulwinter.
Regardless of what choice you make, some vast evil will be let loose upon Faerun.
Some choices may set more than one loose however.
Infernis
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2 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2011 - 12:54AM
#9
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It is the nature of major quests. Anyway, considering some of the grumbling I have seen most people on these boards seem to agree that not getting extra quest xp is a good thing 
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2 years ago ::
Sep 08, 2011 - 6:13PM
#10
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The problem that I have with this module is that for many PCs there is no way to "win" without compromising their morals. I played this with a lawful good dwarf ... freeing an insane lich based on a rumor was never an option. Helping an evil giant wasn't really an option either. I don't want to play a game where I'm forced to play "morally gray" or compromise my ethics in order to achieve major goals. I play D&D to play a hero. It's this kind of game that wants me to not continue playing LFR. If you want me to have a hard decision, give me some options. Choosing between two evils is not an option.
I would take any of the following options to getting the information we need:
- Give me a real, in game penalty as an option. Curse me. Make me pay a death penalty. Something.
- Give me a way to trick the evil lich into giving us the information without freeing her.
- Let me fight her (or her champion) even if it is a much tougher fight that I may easily lose (but not a hopeless fight because it needs to be a viable option).
Allen.
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