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2 years ago ::
Mar 13, 2011 - 10:51AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2007
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This thread is intended for consolidated feedback, criticisms, and tips (for DMs) for WATE2-3 as well as questions about WATE2-3. The thread will contain spoilers but usage of spoiler blocks for significant spoilers is appreciated.
Keith
Keith Hoffman
LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
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2 years ago ::
Apr 03, 2011 - 9:18PM
#2
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2004
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I ran a table of this over the weekend, and the player feedback was generally pretty negative. As a story, they felt it was acceptable, but the combat encounters were disdained by all. 1st Combat
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Firstly, everyone felt that the mounts provided or offered were very fragile and had hoped for something a little more resilient. Their fears were realized when the combat begins and the abishai snipers and blue dragon shell the PCs from afar. A player died in the first round of combat because he fell off his mount, and declined to accept my offers of clemency (Acrobatic stunt to leap to safety 5 feet away from the earthmote edge, or landing on the cave entrance). While the mount speeds were sufficient to get players to safety, they noted that the presence of highly mobile artillery was keeping them from progressing. I would tell future DMs not to use attacks that prone unless the PCs have already landed, preventing the insta-kill. What got my players up in arms was how easily the insta-kill situation could have been created (Abishai's stun power, wyvern's claw attack, drake's teleporting burst). Final Combat
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Monster synergy could be improved. For instance, instead of having the assassin as an opponent to start, a second painbearer would have been preferred, since the auras only work on shadar-kai allies. Also, only the assassin and the dark stalker have darkvision, so once the darkness is used, everyone is blinded. Since there is an alchemical stockpile/workbench, it would have been easy to say that everyone has an unguent of darkvision already applied, so the qabalists can benefit. Non-shadar-kai opponents could easily have had their race changed to gain further benefit from the painbearer's aura.
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2 years ago ::
Apr 04, 2011 - 3:46AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Aug 21, 2007
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Thanks for the feedback. Spoiler:
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Yes, the danger in the first combat of falling off the mount was recognized; hence, instructions added that situation regarding saves and heroic leaps. Putting in more powerful mounts that become more significant in defeating the combat is not my idea of providing a challenge. Regarding the final combat, are you saying it was not tough enough? Spoiler:
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The different races were all chosen for story reasons. Usage of an alchemical item or potion is something that could have been added, but we did not see the encounter is one to be fought in total darkness (no pun intended). This did not come up in the playtests. Keith
Keith Hoffman
LFR Writing Director for Waterdeep
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2 years ago ::
Apr 04, 2011 - 7:16AM
#4
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Date Joined:
Mar 11, 2004
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Thanks for the feedback.
Spoiler:
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Yes, the danger in the first combat of falling off the mount was recognized; hence, instructions added that situation regarding saves and heroic leaps. Putting in more powerful mounts that become more significant in defeating the combat is not my idea of providing a challenge.
Regarding the final combat, are you saying it was not tough enough?
Spoiler:
Show
The different races were all chosen for story reasons. Usage of an alchemical item or potion is something that could have been added, but we did not see the encounter is one to be fought in total darkness (no pun intended). This did not come up in the playtests.
Keith
Spoiler:
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The players mostly felt that it could have been improved with more darkvision. Why hand out -5 to 60% of the qabal?
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2 years ago ::
Apr 06, 2011 - 2:39AM
#5
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Spoiler:
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It is unclear to me how an all melee party completes the 1st encounter without the DM "softballing it". I suppose the PCs could run to the cave entrance below and flee the combat, and take the half XP, but then what's the point? All-melee parties aren't uncommon. Even if the all-melee party has a decent RBA, without powers that specifically work at range, it's just 1[W]+6 or so damage, which makes the encounter an endless grind (but more likely a TPK). Is it assumed everyone has their trusty +3 Voidcrystal weapon? The suggestion the enemies not attack the mounts is equally ridiculous - why wouldn't a Dragon or an Abishai or a Portal Drake use the most effective tactic it can think of, especially when they all have PC-level intelligence? Not the Wyverns, of course.
What if a Ranged PC couldn't make the leap onto the earthmote and could only make it to the cave entrance at the bottom? That PC is effectively dead unless he can attack from over 20 squares away anyway - and most PCs can't do that outside of a Longbow/Crossbow (which gets back to the pointless grind complaint).
Ideally, you could have had an section in the previous RP encounter where the church of Selune offers to give you the cheap mounts, but that received a ritual of protection vs the storms that are frequent in the skies near the earthmote. This allows the mounts to stay "crappy" (attack-wise), but still lets melee combatants engage the enemies with a little less trepidation that their mounts will get blown out from under them. Of course, the ritual takes a long time to cast, so there won't be enough time for the PCs to get their own, and no the church won't loan you a copy...
Spoiler:
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Heck, even EPIC 3-1 doesn't assume everyone can fly, let alone have a decent ranged attack.
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