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11 months ago ::
Aug 27, 2012 - 10:35PM
#481
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- Dragon Slayer
- If only he would apply himself
- Dammit Jim, this is Star Trek, not D&D!
Date Joined:
Jan 31, 2006
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So if people have time commitment issues, can we get someone else to do those jobs? Because the fact that AGLA2-4 still hasn't been released is really just moronic at this point.
It isn't easy to get talent. For example, one really excellent gamer with whom I've played LFR for years and who really has a great feel for 4E helped me design an encounter for Ashes of Athas. He had been saying he would like a chance to write an adventure for a while. So, I asked him to write an adventure the next time we had an opening. Long story short, he ended up feeling really bad about not getting it done. He basically had never guessed how much work it would be, and how hard it could be to get all of the parts done (story, RP, format, schedules, coordination with admin vision, combat, etc.). And this is a guy I really knew well. We are friends.
It is even harder when you don't know people well. Authors dropping is a very common occurrence. Out of three adventures we probably have one person drop or fade away. Things happen. When that does, you have to make choices. Because Ashes of Athas 'only' has three adventures to write per convention, we usually just lose a ton of sleep and get the work done. LFR has a lot more on its plate. With limited authors you can trust and with limited admin time, isn't it best to focus on great new stories rather than deal with adventures from inactive regions and with storylines our PCs have long since left behind?
Edit: Even seemingly simple tasks such as uploading adventures can be troublesome. For example, Living Greyhawk had various points where great trouble was caused because someone with access to adventures released them early, to the wrong people, or in bad ways.
Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips! Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).
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11 months ago ::
Aug 28, 2012 - 6:39AM
#482
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Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2005
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So if people have time commitment issues, can we get someone else to do those jobs? Because the fact that AGLA2-4 still hasn't been released is really just moronic at this point.
There are some things that only certain people can do. When you hit a roadblock with one of those things, you cannot just ask someone else to do it.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 28, 2012 - 4:29PM
#483
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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Look, here is where I am coming from: I've been waiting on this mod for quite a while now, as it's the mod that's going to take my primary character to epic. He's finished every quest he's started except this one, and he's been waiting for it for quite some time now. Now, I understand that there are delays--heck, even long ones. I will jump for joy if Gary Sarli's e20 System ever sees the light of day, because I submitted my chapter almost two years ago and he owes me like $100 for it.
What I don't understand is this situation, where multiple people with direct knowledge and/or involvement with AGLA2-4 tell me that this adventure is almost completely done and someone (they named names, I won't) is just dicking around about the story awards.
Guys, I am going to throw this out there: Just release the damn mod. I don't care if you copy-paste story awards from one of the others, just give us some kind of resolution here. Watching this mod get unreleased because one guy feels the need to "sleep on it" for months is getting more and more frustrating.
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us  .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 28, 2012 - 4:55PM
#484
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Date Joined:
May 18, 2004
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Anger aside, the adventure release process is pretty opaque. I think it would be a good idea for a post - either here, or on the blog - that explains the current state of adventures in development (writing, editing, reviewing, suspended, etc).
Additionally, perhaps an explanation of the adventure development process would help explain why certain adventures take longer than expected?
I've written some things - check'em out!Spoiler:
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11 months ago ::
Aug 28, 2012 - 6:25PM
#485
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Another "State of LFR" blog post would be greatly appreciated.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 28, 2012 - 6:35PM
#486
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Date Joined:
May 29, 2004
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Anger aside, the adventure release process is pretty opaque. I think it would be a good idea for a post - either here, or on the blog - that explains the current state of adventures in development (writing, editing, reviewing, suspended, etc).
Additionally, perhaps an explanation of the adventure development process would help explain why certain adventures take longer than expected?
Giving a post about the development process of adventures is difficult because the process differs depending on who is writing and who is editing. Having worked with many authors and multiple globals, I can tell you that without question that the process varies quite a bit depending on the preferences of the editors and authors, whether the adventure's by itself or in a series, and the pressures of the release schedule (is it for a convention or general release, for example). That doesn't necessarily talk to the individual current adventures, but speaks a bit to the opacity - and the opacity regarding status of the current adventures may be deliberate in order to avoid finger-pointing or discussion of who's got what going on (and trust me, some of those conversations get very heated behind the scenes).
John du Bois
Living Forgotten Realms Writing Director, Netheril story area
Follow me on The Twitter: @JohnduBois
Follow my presence on The Intertubes: johncdubois.wordpress.com
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11 months ago ::
Aug 29, 2012 - 12:10AM
#487
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There are some things that only certain people can do. When you hit a roadblock with one of those things, you cannot just ask someone else to do it.
Actually, the logical response would be to ensure redundancy and have multiple people who can do that thing. Nothing in this organization is nuclear mechanics, and no one in this organization is Dr Pavel; if it weren't for the organizational ties with WotC and Con Organizers or name recognition, in the past 3 years of this bulls*** we could have replicated the process without the major roadblocks.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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11 months ago ::
Aug 29, 2012 - 1:35AM
#488
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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Pretty much agree with everything that's been said here. You guys (admins) kind of lost the benefit of my doubt when you started taking two years to release mods; when you tell me that there are certain jobs only certain people can do and anyone else would take longer, my response now is pretty much "Longer than this?"
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 29, 2012 - 4:00AM
#489
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There are many reasons why particular adventures can be late and it rarely is just one reason. We avoid discussing these reasons for specific adventures in public, because nobody is helped with accusations and pointing fingers. It certainly does not get you, the players, the adventure any earlier (more likely the opposite). We are all vollunteers spending our free time on the job, not getting paid for it and in case of new authors completely inexperienced in what it takes to actually write an Organized Play adventure.In case of AGLA2-4 there have been a string of reasons why it got as much delayed as it did that involved litterally everybody in the process, but for the past few months (and only the past few months) it is our fault (the Globals). Do you really hold the whole campaign accountable for ONE adventure? The only thing that that achieves is that in simular situations adventures are going to be cancelled.
As for single points of failure*, that is very rarely the case, but if you think that it is easy to replace a person at any point in the process than you don't realise how much investment it takes to write and develop an adventure and how hard it is to decide that enough is enough and you jump in even more so if there are no hard deadlines and you yourself are busy with several other projects. Nobody wants things to be delayed, but we only have a limited list of vollunteers and they are all busy on RL or other projects. Not to mention that there is a reason why adventures get delayed, meaning you very likely have to redo work, chase down people and the whole process going again. Each time I jumped in to replace a person, it was almost as if the project started at 0 again even when I replaced a WD or Global.
Now, I am not saying, we are doing all that great when it comes to releasing adventures, but I do feel some of the comments here are a bit harsh. We released 24 rounds of adventures intended for this year and 5 rounds from the previous year, excluding adaptables. Sure, not nearly as much as in the first two years, but that was an unworkable amount.
* The only single point of failure we have right now is in uploading the adventures. There is a workaround in that you can mail any of the globals directly to get the finished adventures not online yet such as ABER4 and Undermountain.
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11 months ago ::
Aug 29, 2012 - 11:33AM
#490
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Date Joined:
Jul 12, 2004
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In case of AGLA2-4 there have been a string of reasons why it got as much delayed as it did that involved litterally everybody in the process, but for the past few months (and only the past few months) it is our fault (the Globals). Do you really hold the whole campaign accountable for ONE adventure? The only thing that that achieves is that in simular situations adventures are going to be cancelled.
I hold everyone accountable for everyone having failed, and in recent months have held the Globals accountable because they're holding it up. That's putting the blame where the responsibility lies, and it worries me deeply that doing so would apparently lead to the cancellation of mods.
if you think that it is easy to replace a person at any point in the process than you don't realise how much investment it takes to write and develop an adventure and how hard it is to decide that enough is enough and you jump in even more so if there are no hard deadlines and you yourself are busy with several other projects. Nobody wants things to be delayed, but we only have a limited list of vollunteers and they are all busy on RL or other projects. Not to mention that there is a reason why adventures get delayed, meaning you very likely have to redo work, chase down people and the whole process going again. Each time I jumped in to replace a person, it was almost as if the project started at 0 again even when I replaced a WD or Global.
So the system we have now is the worst one aside from all other systems? If you have only a limited list of volunteers and they're all busy, could it time to consider expanding that list instead of replacing people on it? If zero progress is being made, is it really worse to start over from zero?
Now, I am not saying, we are doing all that great when it comes to releasing adventures, but I do feel some of the comments here are a bit harsh. We released 24 rounds of adventures intended for this year and 5 rounds from the previous year, excluding adaptables. Sure, not nearly as much as in the first two years, but that was an unworkable amount.
I'm not saying you're not releasing enough mods; I'm saying that you are not fulfilling a commitment to release a certain mod within a certain reasonable period of time past its expected release date. It's one example, but it's an important one... especially since the mod that starts its quest is now legal for play forever. Shouldn't a mod culminating a major quest spanning--if I recall correctly; I'm away from my books at the moment--two tiers, one that is the capstone and path into Epic for those of us whose characters adventured heavily in a certain area, take priority over other mods... especially considering that, by everyone's admission, the thing is almost completely done anyway?
On the CO IRC, generally as TorpedoFish. Vain? Me? NEVER.
Show
You're the straightest shooter I know on these boards. You don't mince words about your opinions, and I respect that about you. The whole fiasco you described in the last State of the CO Forum was particularly enlightening (and kind of disappointing with regards to how they see us).
Ah, Tsuyo. When your post isn't one sentence long full of asterisks, you have much wisdom to share with us .
From the IRC: (19:52) RuinsFate: You know, I was gonna agree with something PalOn said... but I think I'm just gonna through my lot in with tsuyo's sudden train-wreck grade interjection.
(01:45) Nausicaa: yes your rage is a righteous rage :D
(01:45) Nausicaa: righteous rage of torpedo
My sci-fi writing.
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