|
3 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2010 - 10:07AM
#1
|
Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2005
|
This thread is for the player review of the LFR CCG v1.99 draft. Please post your comments to this thread.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2010 - 10:21AM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
At first glance, I like the rules for character creation above 1st level. Enables new players, doesn't allow old players to skip all the steps all the time (but there is some flexibility). The rules for reward cards in that regard feel a bit fiddly and I think we could do without them, particularly given the overall changes in reward cards -- it's another thing to track, which is a pain. Since reward cards will change more dramatically in 2011, why make people track that for 6 months? I like the reward card changes and I think that'll be non-controversial (only one of any given card). "Story objects" are not defined anywhere. Is this the same thing as a story award? On page 6: "When you play the adventure, use the log to write notes like what you did, what story objects your received, or who you played with." That should be "When you play the adventure, use the log to write notes such as what you did, what story objects you received, or who you played with." I didn't grammar edit the whole thing but that one jumped out at me. Italics mine. So yeah, this is pretty cool.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2010 - 10:29AM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2005
|
You are definately right about the inconsistancy of story object vs. story award. Looks like the old usage of story object from LGR and XE crept in all over. I'll fix that asap.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2010 - 10:42AM
#4
|
Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
|
You chose what may be the worst of all possible options for dealing with the problem of players wanting to play high-level characters.
New players start at 11th level (okay, they can choose to start at 1st, 5th or 8th level, but who are we kidding?). However, if you already have a P1 character, you cannot start a new character in that level band.
This means that, ironically, now it will be experienced players who can't manage to get together H1-H3 tables, due to the lack of new players to fill them up.
This is badly designed on every possible level: Not only does this encourage new players not to start at 1st level, it also discourages experienced players from having more than one character. The end result will be to add more casual players to the campaign at the same time it reduces hardcore players to casual ones.
I could comment on some of the details, and might later, but right now, it's tough to really care.
I find declarations of quitting to be silly; if you had fun playing D&D before, you'll have fun playing it now. However, the end result will be to turn me into a casual player: if I'm getting together with friends who like to play D&D, LFR might be the game I play; this is opposed to the status quo in which LFR is something I go out of my way to schedule, play and run.
A better solution would have been to simply announce that the campaign was moving strictly to paragon play and remove the heroic tier from the campaign, but maintain the living campaign flavor starting at level 11.
The end result of this change is a campaign I don't care about any more.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2010 - 10:48AM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Sep 10, 2004
|
I see this is an LFR CCG now, instead of an RPGA CCG. Is this change intentional, and are there any plans to produce a non-LFR version of this document to replace the February version of the RPGA CCG?
Overall, however, I must agree these changes are pretty terrible.
DCI Level 2 Judge
WPN Advanced TO
RPGA Herald-Level GM
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2010 - 10:51AM
#6
|
Date Joined:
Apr 25, 2005
|
Retraining example on page 8 is wrong. A level 13 character could have 5
Paragon level feats (retrain heroic->paragon at 11, 12, and 13th levels,
plus the feats at 11 and 12), not 4.
A 12th level PC would be limited to 4 paragon feats..
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2010 - 10:52AM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2005
|
Not only does this encourage new players not to start at 1st level, it also discourages experienced players from having more than one character.
I like you to elaborate on this thought, because I'm not actually sure I understand it. If we continue to put out more heroic adventures than higher level adventures, wouldn't you want a PC to play them? The primary arguement seems to be that people will only make higher level PCs in order to play all the higher level (paragon or epic) adventures, but that ignores the fact that there are lots of new heroic adventures being put out. If you like playing LFR adventures, wouldn't you want a PC that could play them?
I'm not sure, but I think you are arguing that we should simply stop writing any new Heroic tier adventures (or maybe stop both Heroic and Paragon), since only high level play is ever any fun?
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2010 - 10:55AM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Mar 17, 2005
|
I see this is an LFR CCG now, instead of an RPGA CCG. Is this change intentional, and are there any plans to produce a non-LFR version of this document to replace the February version of the RPGA CCG?
Yes, the change is intentional. The document is meant to be the only one you need in order to make an LFR PC. I can't speak to revisions of the non-LFR CCG as it is not under our control, but I imagine it will eventually be edited by someone.
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2010 - 11:00AM
#9
|
Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2006
|
While I don't necessarily want to swamp things with legalese... a party of six can have three members of each of two different adventuring companies. Certainly they gain one and only one bonus action point, but it is not clear who is "any member of the adventuring company (only)" and therefore can use the bonus AP. Does the party need to decide at the start which adventuring company gets the AP that session? Or do they effectively have two bonus APs (one for each adventuring company), but are limited to using only one or the other? It's a pain to need extra verbiage for this one specific corner case but I think it should be clarified one way or the other.
There is a math error in the retraining section. A 13th level PC could have retrained a grand total of 3 heroic feats into paragon, including the 13th level retrain, under the base PHB rules.
The new character creation rules necessitate a previously unnecessary official character retirement/permanent death rule. For example, my only 4-7 character right now is one whom I have publicly stated permanently died. I declined the charity of death clause and the Raise Dead ritual options, because it fit my characters story better that he stay dead. Does that mean I am able to create a level 5 PC? Likewise, if I were to permanently retire a character either for plot reasons or because I was simply dissatisfied with the character, would that open up the option of creating a new character at that level band (assuming no other characters were in the band of course)?
Before there was no potential negative of having a character sitting on the sidelines at a particular level, so there was no meaningful difference between having a character that you consistently chose not to play and one that is permanently retired/dead so the campaign had no need of a rule to handle such. (And no need to even think about enforcing a voluntary retirement; as it wasn't a problem if a player retired a character, then picked it up again a year later because for some reason it made sense to do so at the time. Now if retirement opens a new character option and the player takes that option, it would be inappropriate to pick up the character again later.)
|
|
|
|
3 years ago ::
Jun 03, 2010 - 11:05AM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Sep 21, 2006
|
Not only does this encourage new players not to start at 1st level, it also discourages experienced players from having more than one character.
I like you to elaborate on this thought, because I'm not actually sure I understand it. If we continue to put out more heroic adventures than higher level adventures, wouldn't you want a PC to play them? The primary arguement seems to be that people will only make higher level PCs in order to play all the higher level (paragon or epic) adventures, but that ignores the fact that there are lots of new heroic adventures being put out. If you like playing LFR adventures, wouldn't you want a PC that could play them?
I'm not sure, but I think you are arguing that we should simply stop writing any new Heroic tier adventures (or maybe stop both Heroic and Paragon), since only high level play is ever any fun?
I can't speak for others, but I personally plan to make a 5th level PC to backfill H2 in my roster as I currently have a 9, 10, 13, and some 1-2s. please keep putting out heroic adventures. While I have made clear my distaste for yet more H1, I rather like H2-H3 and there are plenty of people who enjoy H1 (especially if they don't get stuck with endless repeats because there are no new adventures).
My previous post was rather critical, at least of specifics. Let me make clear: I really like the new changes overall.
|
|
|
