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11 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2009 - 12:59PM
#1
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I thought it would be nice for newcomers to give them some advice on pitfalls to avoid in playing Axis and Allies Miniatures. The purpose of this thread is to spur newcomers to think outside of the box and achieve a higher level of play rapidly. Share any thoughts here on what actions generally lead to defeat and what steps need to be taken to counteract these loser moves. Here is one example (I have many, but I don't want to steal anyone else's thunder by exhausting the topic in the first post)
You've already lost if you care more about each individual piece you have in play than achieving your objectives. Risks have to be taken and pieces need to be sacrificed each game in order to win. I'm not talking about wantonly exposing infantry to mortar and machine gun fire when they have no chance of returning fire. I can best illustrate what I mean with an example from my last game.
In a 300 point game, I was Italy and my opponent was the US. In the vehicle department, I had a Semovente 90/53, a Semovente 75/18, two Carro Armato M13/40's and four Autoblinda AB41's. My opponent had seven M4A1 Shermans and four Greyhounds. In my opinion, I was severely outmatched, but it didn't play out that way. With the help of a handful of 47/32 Antitank guns (which are very lucky if they disrupt a Sherman at medium and long ranges), I was able to surround his tanks. Every time my Semovente 90/53 sighted his Sherman swarm, they would scatter and hide. There was only one Sherman who risked exchanging fire at long range with my Semovente, and that resulted in a disruption of mine and a two round annihilation of that Sherman. It wasn't until the sixth round that he risked engaging my tanks with the other six, and that resulted in one of his Shermans being damaged and another disrupted, whereas I lost a Carro Armatto and the Semovente 75/18. At that point, my infantry held both objectives (most of his infantry had been gunned down by my Autoblindas, four Breda Modello 37's, three Italian Heros and a large group of Fuceli Modellos and Blackshirts) and the only objective that he could possibly take (with a Sherman) had a Carro Armatto sitting on it and my big Semovente 90/53 aiming right at it. Clearly, he did too little too late.
What he should have done was set a goal for taking out my four tanks within the first four rounds, even if it meant losing half of his Shermans in the process. The remaining Shermans and the Greyhounds would then have been able to support his infantry and annihilate my infantry. Because he was unwilling to lose his tanks, he ended up losing the game. Your objective is not to make it to the end of the game with all of your pieces, but to be sitting on the objective hex(es) at the end of round seven. The only way to accomplish that is by making calculated sacrifices.
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11 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2009 - 3:15PM
#2
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Yes, its a game, think like chess, you will lose pawns.
Its not like some games where the victor keeps what they "kill", they will come back next game.
Like any other wargame, set your objectives, go for them. Even if its simply to make the opponents victory costly.
In this game, some older infantry items are worth while getting from the 2nd hand market:
- If you have access to in direct fire, get a couple of spotters. - Covering fire is worth it if you learn how to use it. - Snipers can be of use against certain forces.
As to the swarm/wave attack, the whole idea is to provide the opponent with an over rich target environment. They will kill many of yours, but not enough. The trick is to know when to hang back, and when to get stuck in.
Like a lot of things, experience, it is vital, you won't have it until after you need it!
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11 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2009 - 3:17PM
#3
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if you donnot want to loose i would say: surprise your enemy. use quirky units like the bofor, planes or goliaths. AT guns always come handy against tanks while mortars might keep the enemy infantry at bay. obstacles are cheap and agood buy too.
but you have already lost if your tank force is wiped out!:eek:
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11 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2009 - 3:51PM
#4
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Good thread.
This may seem obvious, but I've seen "surrender" a bit endemic at times.
Do not give up.
I've turned around terrible odds (with witnesses) and won games. I've coached opponents to continue and win games they thought they lost. A couple of you out there know who you are.
Bottom line: If the game turns against you...tighten your tactics. Think "cat & Mouse"...pay attention to timing...to synchronicity. This game is very much like chess. A good strategic build deserves sound tactics. Very often tight tactics can overcome a poorly planned build.
And remember, you play your opponent...not his(her) build.
I know this seems vague, but there it is.
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11 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2009 - 4:22PM
#5
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The biggest mistake I have seen time and time again is related specifically to expensive, heavy armor. If you're going to spend all the points to pay for it, you might as well get two (if the limit allows). By having one, it creates a slightly intimidating target for the enemy to focus on, but definitely one they can defeat in many cases. If you shell out the points for a second, it now becomes easy to bully your opponent. When you take a tank that costs half your points, you tend to protect it too much, and not unleash its power, because losing it will drastically cripple you, but if you just hide it behind a forrest anyways, you've already done that. It's like a Queen in chess, and you'll only look for the right time to use where there can't be any risk of failure. Make sure you have some decent infantry running with it, and all's fine.
Conversely, if there's 2 in play, you're very likely to lose neither. Rather than come up with a brilliant strategy to encircle and kill you, your opponent will probably come up with a strategy to lure you out of the way with a sacrifice, or try and trap them into a line of fire so you move them to a less advantageous position. Just keep them together, because what that'll mean is a guaranteed kill for your tanks, and a highly unlikely anything for your enemy's tanks.
Example of how to succeed:
I had a 200 point match where I had 2 Veteran Tigers guarded by many Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen, and backed up with an ammo dump. I got rushed by 5 T-34/76s and an Su-85 immediately. In the first round, I'd made both cover rolls, and ended up with 1 disrupted Veteran Tiger, and he lost 2 T-34s completely. The next round, I killed 2 more of his T-34s, and he failed to disrupt anything. The game ended at round 3 because he lost his last 2 pieces of armor, and didn't have any possible way to take out my tanks with what he had left. I've had countless times where both my tanks survive until the last round, where I'll sometimes let one die in exchange for completely obliterating anything of value my opponent has left. The infantry did help out when it came to cover, as I just planted them in the forrest and sat there chomping at the bit to yell defensive fire.
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A second point I'll mention is that making a balanced army doesn't mean having a little bit of everything. All that does is mean you have a lot of nothing. You can field an air and infantry only army that is capable of stopping anything they face. 5/5 defense infantry are always a wise choice too. The best way to find balance is play a few games with the same nation, and see what pieces you consistently succeed with. I played my first few games as Germany and found a nice selection of units over the course of that.
I find the whole 80/20 rule works well when building an army in a 200 or more point game. 80% of your army should be things that work together well, and the other 20% should be special pieces that work independently of those, or just trying new things. You get your core army that can usually hold its own, then something a little different that might improve your build. I'd have never made my Panzergrendier/Wespe/Puma/Spotter combo if not for doing things this way.
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I agree with CeltIberian. I've had a deathmatch game where it was my first time fielding the USA, my tanks were wiped out in the first couple of rounds, and all I had left was 3 "Screaming Eagle" Paratroopers, 2 Marine Riflemen, an 81mm Mortar, and a Resourceful Hero. He had 3 tanks, a plane, and 8-9 pieces of infantry. We both thought it was over, but I kept going anyways. I managed to kill his Panzer IV Ausf. G with my hero, and blow away his tanks on the next 2 turns with it and some help from the paratroopers, the rest of my infantry completely destroyed his over time, and he ended up getting backed into the corner and wiped out. I had all 3 paratroopers, a marine, and my hero left at the end of it.
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11 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2009 - 4:47PM
#6
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There's a pretty good way to assess any situation you might find yourself in. Determine what your opponent has fielded that is the biggest threat to your objective contesting. Then figure out what you have that can kill it. If you can eliminate all of your opponent's AT or AI then that leaves that portion of your force unmolested for the remainder. On the flip side if you have all infantry and they have 2 Brummbars then it's gonna be an uphill battle at best. The inverse is true if your opponent has mainly tank hunters left to try to deal with your infantry. I try to play with forces that are balanced as far as AI and AT even if they are predominantly Vehicle or Infantry builds. This is why the Sherman is the best unit in the game, it's useful in ALL situations. Got an MG that needs dead? No problem. Need to flank a German heavy tank? Got it. The only limitation is it's single attack per turn. That's if it has a target every turn. This is another thing to think about when assessing your strategic situation. How many units do you need to kill to have a chance to win? How many shots per turn can you get off optimally? Extra shots make units with "Blast", MGs, and Stuart tanks very valuable in this game(defensive fire attacks as well).
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11 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2009 - 4:53PM
#7
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....This is why the Sherman is the best unit in the game... Agreed. The Sherman is the benchmark for builds...and in its way, for tactics. Units that have well-rounded toolboxes have a strong bid for their place in a build. Better still, builds, and sub-builds, that are true teams, able to deal with both sides of the infantry/armor dilemma.
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11 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2009 - 5:06PM
#8
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Example of how to succeed:
I had a 200 point match where I had 2 Veteran Tigers guarded by many Wehrmacht Veteran Infantrymen, and backed up with an ammo dump.
--schnipp-- 'How to succeed'? I'd personally revert to all infantry builds if you tried that one more than once on me. I dont like the Veteran Tiger. Imagine what seeing two of them does to me. :rant:
It's a killer build. Veteran Tigers supported by infantry (especially capable infantry like the Wehrmacht Veteran infantrymen) is extremely tough to take out, especially by the USSR. On top of it, the ammo dump enables extreme accuracy with the V. Tigers. Though I would personally field Mausers instead of the Wehrmacht Veterans, since you can take close to double the amount of Mausers. Adding in a Brumbaer, WES and a Me262 somewhere would complete this build.
It's time the Allies get their own 'veteran' crack shot heavy tank. (No I dont mean that IS-2.. it has no crack shot)
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11 months ago ::
Jan 04, 2009 - 5:30PM
#9
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I agree this is a good thread idea. Well, I've been playing this game for about a year; generally every two weeks when our group gets together. However, there are some good experienced players I play with that make the game fun and challenging. Plus they are good sports and willing to offer assistance.
Some things and suggestions I learned so far:
Personal and Personnel 1.) Play with good experienced, sports and helping players.
The competitiveness will help you grow and increase your game if you can learn and adjust. If you play with people you can beat up pretty often with poor tactics then you won’t grow. Also, you may think you are good player when that is not the case.
It’s never fun to play against someone who is a poor sport and rubs the game in your face.
If your opponent is not willing to share your short comings then it gives me the indication they want to try to hold an advantage over you. If this is the case then they probably just want to win. However, this may not be the case. For me I would rather help someone improve their tactics to challenge myself and them.
2.) Losing a game can be a good valuable learning experience or not. It depends on you.
3.) Be willing to ask for advice and listen.
Builds In my opinion I think builds are important. I’ve seen better players lose because the opponent had a superior build. Sometimes even good players cannot overcome a superior build due to the odds. For me, I think my builds generally help me even the odds against a superior tactical player. If we have the same builds then I think they may beat me more often.
When making a build I often go with the following criteria. Note this is my general premise before the 10/1 rules. The lifting of unit restriction may change some of the ideas. However, I haven’t faced an infantry swarm build yet. Also, I’m not saying this is the way to go, but what I do.
1.) Know yourself – Know your play style. Are you an aggressive player or defensive? Know what your units can do and the rules.
2.) Know your enemy – Know what you are facing against and if you know your opponent then you can prepare for their style of play.
When I make my build I prepare for: Armor Armor Artillery/Sniper Infantry Aircraft
I like to make a build with some form of redundancy. Meaning if I lose option 1, then I still have option 2 to bail me out. Artillery is important to take out because it can be used to hamper your movements. Also, I like throw in deterrents/threats in my build. Eg. Paratroopers to make the opponent think about spacing and dropping. Tactics I agree with someone’s post about this game is like chess. It’s about positioning and knowing when to sacrifice your pieces to achieve the end goal. I’m still working on my tactics and still need improvements. Some things I learned are:
1.) Target selection and sequence of firing in shooting phase can be important and/or free up your units for something else. 2.) If you have initiative then you can move in a way to hamper your opponent. In the assault phase you have the option of pulling back your forces or deciding to engage. 3.) If you go last then in the assault phase you have the option of positioning yourself for the next turn. You can freely move forward towards your opponent to engage them, position them to hamper them, etc. 4.) Choose your battles. 5.) Sacrifice your units for a purpose and not needlessly. 6.) Don't piecemeal your forces, allowing your opponent to pick you apart. 7.) If you are on the offensive, it's good to come in a substantial force. It gives you more attacks, your opponent more targets to choose from, and/or potentially intimidates your opponent from bring out the necessary pieces to deal with the incursion. 8.) The game lasts generally more than your current turn. So, don't be hasty to do anything rash unless it really is needed. 9.) Understand the game situation.
Just my 2 cents.
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11 months ago ::
Jan 05, 2009 - 12:25AM
#10
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'How to succeed'? I'd personally revert to all infantry builds if you tried that one more than once on me. I dont like the Veteran Tiger. Imagine what seeing two of them does to me. :rant:
It's a killer build. Veteran Tigers supported by infantry (especially capable infantry like the Wehrmacht Veteran infantrymen) is extremely tough to take out, especially by the USSR. On top of it, the ammo dump enables extreme accuracy with the V. Tigers. Though I would personally field Mausers instead of the Wehrmacht Veterans, since you can take close to double the amount of Mausers. Adding in a Brumbaer, WES and a Me262 somewhere would complete this build.
It's time the Allies get their own 'veteran' crack shot heavy tank. (No I dont mean that IS-2.. it has no crack shot) That was specifically refering to when using 2 heavy tanks.
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