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2 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2008 - 3:49AM
#1
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Since they're working on sth similar anyway, I thought I'd throw in my two cents. Nth has been released just yet, so whp knows what we mights still draw their attention to. I'm sure something will have been overlooked!
I've left out the most obvious ones for now; panzergrenadier, improved indirect fire,Katyusha, spotters- superior camouflage and spotting range. I've also left out the ones that are very likely already in the works; interaction between aircraft and units with superior camouflage, changes to covering fire etc.)
* Give Sdkfz 251 Gun transport and give the 250 normal transport.
* Make it so that only foot soldiers ( so no AT guns) can use fighting platform
* How come a spotter has a 7/5 attack???? ( Same as panzergrenadier; ok that one is plain wrong, but I think a spotter should have an attack of at most 4/3/- against soldiers ( it's supposed to be just one or two men, whereas the " regular infantry" figures represent more men and yet only have slightly higher attack values if at all....
* Up attack stats of Sdkfz 221 ( esp. AI)
* Include some of the expanded rules into the standard rules and make it into one new ruleset.
* Make the Bofors cost around 13 points.
* Make hills more important ( e.g. a unit on a hill may ignore one hex of blocking terrain when determining LOS and/or give them +1 short-medium and long range....). This may help avoid " dancing" tactics ( remaining out of LOS) especially if the stacking limit is going to be raised to three....
* ??? What do you guys think?
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2 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2008 - 4:08AM
#2
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* Give Sdkfz 251 Gun transport and give the 250 normal transport.
This would have been a good idea before 3945, but now they are resized and twice reprinted, better make a 251 variant with Gun transport at a higher cost and leave 250/251 we have now as they are.
* Make it so that only foot soldiers ( so no AT guns) can use fighting platform
Good Idea: Artillery can't benefit from FP
* How come a spotter has a 7/5 attack???? ( Same as panzergrenadier; ok that one is plain wrong, but I think a spotter should have an attack of at most 4/3/- against soldiers ( it's supposed to be just one or two men, whereas the " regular infantry" figures represent more men and yet only have slightly higher attack values if at all....
View the spotter as an officer + support (a guy that carries the walkie talkie, one carrying a map case, 1-2 bodyguards) and 7/5 seems OK to me.
* Up attack stats of Sdkfz 221 ( esp. AI)
on which data do you base this. the 222 is a bit too expensive, but I would not think its stats should be changed.
* Include some of the expanded rules into the standard rules and make it into one new ruleset.
NOPE expanded rules are broken (see many other posts of mine - won't repeat here  )
- Ignore the last - I only wanted to comment each of his proposals...
* Make the Bofors cost around 13 points.
13 is a bit much, but +1 or +2 would be OK
* Make hills more important ( e.g. a unit on a hill may ignore one hex of blocking terrain when determining LOS and/or give them +1 short-medium and long range....). This may help avoid " dancing" tactics ( remaining out of LOS) especially if the stacking limit is going to be raised to three....
I can't see that a hill helps to spot units inside a Forest - I could see that the heigth advantage could help to see over the next hill (if no other blocking terrain is in between) - you could also argue that units ON a hill could be seen more easily - I believe we should enjoy a KISS here :D - keep it as it is
I have a hard time of thinking of units that should be changed, but a recost for the Sd Kfz 234/2 would be the foremost.
A change I would strongly suggest is that Commander Abilities (other than init) should only affect troops of the same nation.
So no Commissar killing off Untested Recruits (now the better selection over the KMT - Rifle )
Give a SA to the ZERO to compensate for 3/3 def. (- additional -1 to Attacks on the Zero maybe - hard to hit, but when hit easy to kill) - but Zero was heavily dicussed already...
...,... and Rock'n Roll - but Minis are fun too...
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2 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2008 - 4:35AM
#3
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This would have been a good idea before 3945, but now they are resized and twice reprinted, better make a 251 variant with Gun transport at a higher cost and leave 250/251 we have now as they are.
Well, better late than never...They say they're redoing things, so why not if it's for the betterm,ent of the game. The cards won't be used too much anyway anymore, I suppose, because you won't know what's cahnged and what's still the same....
Good Idea: Artillery can't benefit from FP
View the spotter as an officer + support (a guy that carries the walkie talkie, one carrying a map case, 1-2 bodyguards) and 7/5 seems OK to me.
If that's indeed the intention, then I can live with it....
on which data do you base this. the 222 is a bit too expensive, but I would not think its stats should be changed.
I have to admit I'm not a true expert on data myself. As others have researched in other threads apparently there's no real, reason for thje German variants to be so much worse than the Panhard, other than the fact that the latter was supposed to take on SS panzergrenadiers....
NOPE expanded rules are broken (see many other posts of mine - won't repeat here )
- Ignore the last - I only wanted to comment each of his proposals...
What on earth makes you say the expanded rules are BROKEN???? A bit vague here and there as worded in the booklet, I'll give you that, they might even have done a better job at some things ( overwatch and planes mostly), but to me they are by no means broken! If it's enfilade fire you're referring to: just make sure you don't get caught in it!
13 is a bit much, but +1 or +2 would be OK
Well, around 13, I said. 12-14 is where I think it should be. At least more than 9 or 10.
I can't see that a hill helps to spot units inside a Forest - I could see that the heigth advantage could help to see over the next hill (if no other blocking terrain is in between) - you could also argue that units ON a hill could be seen more easily - I believe we should enjoy a KISS here :D - keep it as it is
You can spot units IN a forest without any problems now too! :D I mean that it'd be possible to look OVER one hex of blocking terrain!
I have a hard time of thinking of units that should be changed, but a recost for the Sd Kfz 234/2 would be the foremost.
How about another recost for the Kettenrad?
A change I would strongly suggest is that Commander Abilities (other than init) should only affect troops of the same nation.
I'd welcome such a change! ( If only for the reason the Chinese infantrymen wouldn't understand what the Cossack Capatain is shouting at him :D )
So no Commissar killing off Untested Recruits (now the better selection over the KMT - Rifle )
Give a SA to the ZERO to compensate for 3/3 def. (- additional -1 to Attacks on the Zero maybe - hard to hit, but when hit easy to kill) - but Zero was heavily dicussed already...
I like this suggestion!
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2 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2008 - 4:40AM
#4
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Guys, how exactly do those multi-quotes work?
I pressed " multi-quote" and then reply, but that doesn't work, so I just put my response on bold print....:embarrass
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2 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2008 - 4:44AM
#5
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Jeep: Give it AI attacks stats
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2 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2008 - 4:46AM
#6
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Another one: heroes: During your movement phase Replace a face-up disrupted soldier unit with a hero. The face-up disrupted counter is immediately removed.
It makes them more expensive so less likely to be fielded which IMHO is a good thing....
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2 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2008 - 4:56AM
#7
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Guys, how exactly do those multi-quotes work?
I pressed " multi-quote" and then reply, but that doesn't work, so I just put my response on bold print....:embarrass
I use the : "put quote tags around selected text" - button...
multi quote is when you want to reply to multiple posts in one post : press the MQ-button except for the last post - then use the standard quote button...
...,... and Rock'n Roll - but Minis are fun too...
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2 years ago ::
Jun 13, 2008 - 6:11PM
#8
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Focusing on units that are overpowered or have a negative impact on the metagame.
Wehrmacht Expert Sniper
Problem: Headshot SA is too powerful against expensive heavy tanks. Recommendation: limit Headshot to affect only vehicles with printed front defense of 3 or less.
BMW Motorcycle
Problem: Combination of cost 5, speed 5, immune to vehicle defensive fire and close assault 6 makes the BMW an anti-tank guided missile.
Recommendation: Add SA - Vehicles may make defensive fire attacks against this unit.
Crack Shot SA
Problem: Crack Shot turns units into AA Guns.
Crocodile
Problem: Combination of high armor, flamethrower and low cost breaks the price/performance curve and encourages extreme builds (see Croc Stew).
Recommendation: Change Flamethrower SA to only affect units tothe front of the Croc.
Alternate Recommendation: Change Flamethrower SA to not function when Croc is Disrupted or Damaged.
Cossack Captain on KV-1
Problem: Overpowered combo
Recommendation: commander abilities do not function for units in transport.
Greek Soldier
Problem: Greeks are not supermen
Recommendation: tone down SA
1/1 Defense Transport as Assault Vehicles
Problem: Trucks & Jeeps are not assault units.
Recommendation: Units with 1/1 Defense and Transport SA may not move adjacent to enemy units.
Ammo Dump
Problem: Ammo Dump dominates the game.
Recommendation: Change ability to re-roll one attack per turn. Change cost if necessary.
Support Units - Ammo Dump, Fuel Depot, Headquarters
Problem: Cost does not scale with army size
Solution: Revise cost to X per 100 points.
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2 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2008 - 3:41AM
#9
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FYI, most of the BAR Jeeps were so fitted as an improvised (and very weak) AA defense--many trucks in NA carried BARs for the same reason.
Maybe a BAR Gunner's AI stats with an "Antiaircraft Attack ONLY" SA?
Of course, then we'll need an SAS/LRDG Jeep bristling with machine-guns, maybe part of a "Covert Ops"-themed set?
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2 years ago ::
Jun 14, 2008 - 3:41AM
#10
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Doc has good, well thought out ideas. It's just too bad I disagree with quite a few of them.
Wehrmacht Expert Sniper
Problem: Headshot SA is too powerful against expensive heavy tanks. Recommendation: limit Headshot to affect only vehicles with printed front defense of 3 or less.
WES is only one of many reasons why "expensive heavy tanks" are usually not a good idea.
However, I've seen a suggestion somewhere that Headshot should be required to actually 'succeed'.
As an alternative, consider this:
[INDENT]# Headshot
Once per game, this unit may make an attack against a Vehicle at 6/6/6.[/INDENT]
Crack Shot SA
Problem: Crack Shot turns units into AA Guns.
So what?
Crocodile
Problem: Combination of high armor, flamethrower and low cost breaks the price/performance curve and encourages extreme builds (see Croc Stew).
Recommendation: Change Flamethrower SA to only affect units tothe front of the Croc.
Alternate Recommendation: Change Flamethrower SA to not function when Croc is Disrupted or Damaged.
I have a suspicion this has already been covered in the mythical rules update we were getting "in two weeks"
Cossack Captain on KV-1
Problem: Overpowered combo
Recommendation: commander abilities do not function for units in transport.
So what?
Greek Soldier
Problem: Greeks are not supermen
Recommendation: tone down SA
Recosting is the appropriate answer.
1/1 Defense Transport as Assault Vehicles
Problem: Trucks & Jeeps are not assault units.
Recommendation: Units with 1/1 Defense and Transport SA may not move adjacent to enemy units.
Run a truck up to anything, and exactly why they weren't "assault vehicles" becomes very obvious. Creating a rule to outright ban a situation that handles itself naturally is just silly.
This is akin to executing people for attempting suicide.
Ammo Dump
Problem: Ammo Dump dominates the game.
Recommendation: Change ability to re-roll one attack per turn. Change cost if necessary.
Ammo is only a problem when the opponent refuses to plan for it.
Support Units - Ammo Dump, Fuel Depot, Headquarters
Problem: Cost does not scale with army size
Solution: Revise cost to X per 100 points.
See above.
The penalties for the support being ended do scale.
If I have 990 points of units + Ammo, all 990 points become equally less-awesome when that ammo gets blowed up. A very large army that's using support as a crutch really needs to bring those support in multiples.
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