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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 1:34PM
#21
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I don’t think dyeing is a problem in DnD I think it is a merit; if you want to play a game that you never die in, invest in mmorpgs or other videogames.
Your opinion is now invalid.
There should be a Godwin's Law for discussions about games: If you suggest that the person holding the opposite opinion about Game A should play Game B instead, you automatically lose the argument.
Pretty much the way I look at it already.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 1:58PM
#22
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Wouldn’t be the first time I invalidate myself lol
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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 3:01PM
#23
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Date Joined:
Nov 30, 2005
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I guess what it comes down to; I haven’t seen a serious suggestion to negate player death that has gotten me to take combat serious; if I know the worse that can happen in losing a battle is some lost XP/items or something changes in the story plotline I won’t be nearly on edge as if I know that ****ing up will get my character killed.
So when your DM says "actually it turns out you were gravely injured but then captured. You wake up and now need to free yourself" you can respond with "Eeeh, Krusk dies from his injuries."
5e comments and thoughts all in one place. Check it out to provide feedback, mock, or steal ideas.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28835423/Krusks_5e_Design_Goals?sdb=1
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2 months ago ::
Mar 25, 2013 - 10:05PM
#24
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I don't really see what the problem is. I have a game where when a character dies, he takes a hit to EXP and either gets revived or a new char is rolled. If a TPK were to ever occur, players would most likely just find themselves in a side quest to be brought back to life through a dungeon in a different plane. If the players roll bad, then give them a second chance; if it's from stupidity, punish them but allow them to continue the story. And punishment doesn't always have to be bad, facing an optional boss of dungeon can be fun and extend that campaign, give more depth into the world you’re in and even introduce new plot lines and NPCs. Hell, even a session where the party have become ghosts and they must convince a local cleric to revive them might prove challenging.
DnD isn't just some game with a finite amount of rules, it's a story that you are telling to the protagonists of that story. If any book ended with "and then they all died. -The End" would be horribly depressing and somewhat of a letdown. Awesome as Hamlet was, there are tools that can fix these problems. tell your DM to be a good story teller and challenge him to find a logical way for the story to continue.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 26, 2013 - 6:48AM
#25
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Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
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I don't really see what the problem is. I have a game where when a character dies, he takes a hit to EXP and either gets revived or a new char is rolled.
It's still very unpleasant and most solutions to it, such as these ones are completely ad hoc and unsatisfying.
If the players roll bad, then give them a second chance; if it's from stupidity, punish them but allow them to continue the story.
Isn't is "stupidity" not to account for the possibility of bad die rolls?
A DM need not, and should not, "punish" stupidity.
And punishment doesn't always have to be bad, facing an optional boss of dungeon can be fun and extend that campaign, give more depth into the world you’re in and even introduce new plot lines and NPCs.
That's potentially very interesting, but it doesn't require the PCs to die. They could simply have failed and need to find a different approach to the problem.
Hell, even a session where the party have become ghosts and they must convince a local cleric to revive them might prove challenging.
Yes, that would be an interesting challenge. Once.
DnD isn't just some game with a finite amount of rules, it's a story that you are telling to the protagonists of that story.
One way people rationalize death is to tell themselves that they aren't the protagonists, any more than any real people are "protagonists." If a character dies before succeeding, then they're just one of the bodies that the next adventurers stumble across.
I don't hold with that, but it's one approach people use.
If any book ended with "and then they all died. -The End" would be horribly depressing and somewhat of a letdown. Awesome as Hamlet was, there are tools that can fix these problems. tell your DM to be a good story teller and challenge him to find a logical way for the story to continue.
And suggest to the DM that they make room for these logical ways upfront, so they can be incorporated into the story, rather than tacked on. And help the DM come up with those ways.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
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2 months ago ::
Mar 26, 2013 - 6:19PM
#26
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Date Joined:
Sep 27, 2005
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TPK's suck. No way around that.
My thought is when something bad happens, it doesn't have to be uninteresting. As a DM I tend to put the players in an awful situation afterwards, but one that offers something cool. (captured by slavers, souls in hell, etc)
That being said as a player I typically want to die and make it an awesome death scene.
Either way the result has to be interesting and fun (but not fun for the CHARACTERS) or I'm not DMing under my motto,"Maximize Fun!"
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2 months ago ::
Mar 30, 2013 - 2:43PM
#27
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Date Joined:
Mar 30, 2013
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Funny,
I scanned this thread and saw post where the opinion of DM about death is stated, but I havent seen any stating what the group, player and DM, position is.
The game can be its own punishment. Players throw themself in the middle of the action, just swarm them with hordes of flanking monsters isolating them. Might make them reconsider future encounters.
While I enjoy a level of being carefull and thoughtful, I love playing Dungeon and Dragon, not SWAT-storming the Dungeon. If your group enjoy having to express clear tactical sequence for opening doors, storming rooms, dispatching monsters and checking for traps, then go for that. My group prefer heroic storming with basic plan and our DM adjust for that. The group's notion of fun should be the main goal, not only a few individuals or worst only the DM! Look for your own balance.
In the situation described in the OP, where dices simply failed the group, the DM could stated that as the last of the characters falls below 0 hit points, another party on their trails jump in and rescue them. Once on a safe spot, they heal the party members that can be, and let them deal with the option of allocating ressources or not to raise their commarades back to life. Did the saving party act in an altruistic way, or did they expect payment for their labor. The reputation of the party might influence the outcome!
Feel the players where careless and needs to work themself out of a bad place before resuming their adventures, then why not have their vanquishing enemies send them to the copper mines as slaves. Good slave are so hard to get by and when candidates are lying at your feet , even a third grade goblin administrator will see the commercial value of healing them back to life.
Not bad enough to your taste, have them magically bound to the will of Evil Bad Dude and being forced on mission to destroy and sabotage the work of their previous adventures to further his own plans. How many missions before they hear of a way to break the bound and they are able to pursue it while under the binding literal interpretation of their imposed assignment.
Even if the players regain consciousness moment before being put to shackles in the copper mines beside their equipment, their play session to get out of there and back to their original adventure IS a punishment.
Having a DM allow this variety! If feel the game is enhanced if his role is greater than to be an arbirter of rules and an administrator of monsters.
So before adressing issues such as the finality of death and the availability of raising mecanic, one might first need to address what are the group expectation. I rather enjoy the heroic fantasy feeling and death as a finality might ruin it for my group. What is your group expectations?
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