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2 months ago  ::  Mar 21, 2013 - 6:56PM #1
AzurecobaltX
Date Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 57
I believe gnolls are the only "player race" without a flex stat. Is there any chance that will be rectified?

Also, what do you all think the flex stat should be?
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 22, 2013 - 1:42AM #2
ChadTheBad
Date Joined: Apr 21, 2009
Posts: 26
Just like errata to allow the wielding of two shields (Snapping Testudo Paragon Path) and errata to allow any race regardless of character weight, but not the weight of the character's weapons/armor/items/gears/ammo/etc to ride a mount without applying the encumberence rules... I hope. Althought I doubt it. Regardless I think a choice between Strength and Constitution or Dexterity and Intelligence would be most fitting.
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 22, 2013 - 2:56AM #3
Fardiz
Date Joined: Dec 22, 2010
Posts: 2,199
There is no chance that it will be rectified. Various of the other 'monster' PC races also don't have flex stats.

Str+dex/int would be reasonable (currently genasi is the only str-int race and it would be nice for there to be an option on that stat array). 
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 22, 2013 - 6:29AM #4
WolfLordBran
Date Joined: Jul 26, 2009
Posts: 1,316
Unfortunately, gnolls are the only full Player Character race not to have a flex stat and I've sent in suggestions for articles on PC gnolls and gotten shut down each time. As much as I love them though, Int would not make sense whatsoever for their flex stat. Gnolls are cunning yes, but they aren't noted for being geniuses. Strength or Charisma would have been the third stat more likely.
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 22, 2013 - 8:34AM #5
AzurecobaltX
Date Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 57
While other "monster races" don't have a flex stat, gnolls are a "player race" (as WolfLordBran pointed out). I believe they're the only player race to not have a flex stat. It seems like an odd oversight to leave one race out. I was thinking Dexterity + Strength or Constitution (thus adding Strength as a flex stat).
There are only two races that are Strength + Dexterity (Half Orc and Thri-Kreen) so I think it would be a good fit. Also, in previous editions Strength was the gnoll's highest bonus. They've previously had a *negative* Charisma modifier, so I don't see Charisma as a flex stat. And don't we have enough Wisdom + Dexterity races? (Intelligence is clearly out.)
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 22, 2013 - 2:09PM #6
Istaran
Date Joined: Sep 21, 2006
Posts: 3,153
Dex + Str/Con would be a solid option.
Con + Str/Dex seems a bit more in line with tradition, in that it allows for Str+Con which was their older edition stat bonuses.
(My two gnoll ranger PCs in LFR would appreciate the str boost. )  
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 22, 2013 - 2:58PM #7
AzurecobaltX
Date Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 57
It seems gnolls are more associated with Dexterity now, however. From the recent Wandering Monsters article: "A few other things that differentiate gnolls from orcs: Gnolls are more agile (high Dexterity) and poor leaders (low Charisma). They have accomplished archers, partly because of that high Dexterity."

Also, there are five Str/Con races (and even more if you use "monster races" - and orcs are legal in LFR) and (as I said earlier) only two Str/Dex races.
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 23, 2013 - 8:34AM #8
ToeSama
Date Joined: May 4, 2008
Posts: 1,320
My group and I gave Gnolls a Wisdom option along side Con in our games, since most of their monster casters seemed less arcane and more divine in nature to us (albeit the Demon worshiping type of Divine XD). It also seems like a typical "hunter" type of stat.
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 23, 2013 - 9:28AM #9
AzurecobaltX
Date Joined: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 57
Yeah, "monster races" seem to get Wisdom a lot. I could understand that. That being said, there are already 10 Wis+Dex races out there.

Historically, a gnoll's strength was its defining characteristic (attribute-wise). The only reference in the 1st edition Monster Manual (the first time they're described as hyena-like, as opposed to - and I kid you not - a cross between a gnome and a troll) to their physical or mental attributes is "Gnolls are strong."

In the second edition "Complete Book of Humanoids" (the first time they are described as a player race, I believe) they are given this description: "The initial ability scores are modified by a +1 bonus to Strength, and a -1 penalty to Intelligence and Charisma."

In Basic D&D, "The Orcs of Thar" supplement gave rules on creating gnolls: +1 Strength, +1 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom.

3rd edition gnolls attribute modifiers were +4 Strength, +2 Constitution, -2 Intelligence, and -2 Charisma.

Based on this history of gnolls (and even in the gnoll article on 5th edition), I'd say Strength makes the most sense. The only reference to Wisdom, Intelligence, and Charisma are as negatives. And, for meta-reasons, we're lacking Strength/Dexterity races (and have a ton of Wisdom/Dexterity races, and even several Wisdom/Constitution races).
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2 months ago  ::  Mar 23, 2013 - 11:46PM #10
Pashalik_Mons
Date Joined: May 17, 2009
Posts: 7,095
Personally, the way I think about is, "Which classes should this race excel at?"
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven.  You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
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