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2 months ago ::
Mar 20, 2013 - 9:25PM
#51
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Could you reformat your post please? Those are basically unreadable.
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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2 months ago ::
Mar 20, 2013 - 9:39PM
#52
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Could you reformat your post please? Those are basically unreadable.
Blah, they were right. Must have gotten messed up when I put them in spoiler tags.
EDIT: All fixed now... hopefully. They look fine to me at least.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 21, 2013 - 5:52AM
#53
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I had two players who were very similar to what you are describing in that they did not use their characters effectively at all, to the point where they actually were causing problems for the other players. When I planned encounters (I'm talking about xp budgets and such), I actually began planning them as though there were 1-2 fewer PCs involved, because they were both playing so poorly they might as well have not been playing.
In one case it was the player simply refusing to learn anything about her character. She had a ranger who had several interrupt abilities she could set up to punish enemies attacking other PCs. Instead she used her ranged basic attack every round, regardless, then whined she couldn't do anything. If you showed her a different ability, she would hand wave you away "Yeah, I know that" and then basic ranged attack.
The other player decided he did not like his character, but instead of asking for a new one he tried to play him terribly. He was a leader class but refused to heal others and rushed into battle as a striker. When he took damage or issues were pointed out, it was "the character's fault" or "4E sucks."
In both cases, after discussions with them and others, they were asked to leave the game.
Now, recently I had a player whose PC was a Paladin. Though he enjoyed this character and I feel played him well, what he really wanted to do was rush in and do tons of damage. So after we completed a story arc, that PC wandered off on a new adventure and we brought in a dwarf ranger. He is happy and everyone in the group adjusted to having another striker and one less defender/leader.
So it is really a case-by-case basis. Honestly, if someone cannot learn or is unwilling to learn the roles of the game and find one they enjoy and are comfortable playing, then they probably shouldn't be playing that game.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 21, 2013 - 11:11AM
#54
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Date Joined:
Jun 19, 2004
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Could you reformat your post please? Those are basically unreadable.
Blah, they were right. Must have gotten messed up when I put them in spoiler tags.
EDIT: All fixed now... hopefully. They look fine to me at least.
Now that we have those in a readable fashion, what are we supposed to do with them?
Yes they are unoptimized and kinda terrible. But what does that add to this discussion if changing them isn't something you are interested in?
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out hereSpoiler:
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
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2 months ago ::
Mar 21, 2013 - 3:56PM
#55
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Could you reformat your post please? Those are basically unreadable.
Blah, they were right. Must have gotten messed up when I put them in spoiler tags.
EDIT: All fixed now... hopefully. They look fine to me at least.
Now that we have those in a readable fashion, what are we supposed to do with them?
Yes they are unoptimized and kinda terrible. But what does that add to this discussion if changing them isn't something you are interested in?
I put them up mostly to see what we're working with, but I am willing to change them. After all, I am changing the Warlock (hence his two different stat blocks to reflect the race change). I don't want to completely optimize them in terms of making them being unstopable, but getting them playable would be nice. Of course I will discuss all changes to the characters with the players before we do anything. And I am willing to listen to everything to try and get this game back on track.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 21, 2013 - 4:05PM
#56
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It's going to be difficult to make 'unstoppable' players at level 5. And if one of the main problems is tactics (which seems to be, since even most 'bad' builds can perform well enough in low heroic), even giving the players fully optimized pc's isn't going to change a whole lot. A good player with a decent pc will always outperform a bad player with a fully optimized pc.
FWIW [4e designer] baseline assumption was that roughly 70% of your feats would be put towards combat effectiveness, parties would coordinate, and strikers would do 20/40/60 at-will damage+novas. If your party isn't doing that... well, you are below baseline, so yes, you need to optimize slightly to meet baseline. -Alcestis
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2 months ago ::
Mar 22, 2013 - 10:22PM
#57
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Ok, so this week, we went over a few basic rules (action points, healing surges, etc.) they did a lot better just with that, but not quite up to par. I'm hoping a few more adjustments (like the Revenant change) will boost the group to success. The wizard did use magic missile a lot less as the healer told kept asking him if there was ANYTHING else he could do.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 30, 2013 - 9:37AM
#58
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Talked to the wizard this week, about how to be a better wizard. Things getting slowly a little better. Of course now the Paladin seems to be determined to kill the group and deprive them of an extended rest by finding more people to fight and opening more and more doors.
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