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2 months ago ::
Mar 21, 2013 - 5:08PM
#81
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Not sure what edition is being played has that much bearing on it, unless the players are getting bogged down in something rules-related (which can happen in any edition if the DM doesn't feel free to simply make a ruling and move on).
In my experience, edition has very little to do with it, but some players believe that the faster pacing in our games is an artifact of 4e. I don't think it matters relative to other editions of D&D. That quote I referenced goes to show how people are thinking that good pacing comes about solely from mechanics or the stork brings it wrapped in swaddling or something. I don't think many DMs and players give it much thought until the barbarian charges.
What I'm typically seeing are DMs and players not thinking about what a given scene is supposed to accomplish. Everything gets screentime. Scenes frequently have no framing, no goal, no compelling question to be answered, nothing's on the line, nothing has the real opportunity of changing in an engaging way. It's either an info-dump or aimless in-character interaction or failure mitigation discussions or defensive players that are blocking each other. (This is apparently what many people consider "roleplaying.") Or it could be that the DM has a plot and they can't move to the next scene unless the players get the clue they've hidden too well or that the players misinterpreted. And let's say, fine, your group enjoys that sort of content. The thing is even then, nobody seems to know when a given scene is done already. They just go on and on, one scene after another like this... until the barbarian charges.
"The barbarian charges..." a lot. And it doesn't always boil down to something so simple as it being a "problem player."
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2 months ago ::
Mar 21, 2013 - 6:38PM
#82
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What can I say? I'm insightful.  As for games and pace...the greatest challenge any DM has with me is simply keeping up. I have no problem saying I am generally the smartest person at a given game table and that can be as much a problem as having someone that doesn't know the rules or their right foot from their left. I'd love to play some online games with people...simply to see if they could keep up. And I mean that sincerely. I am desperate to play right now since I can't find anyone to DM for me in my area. My circle of friends are so engrossed in what I am running they don't want to interrupt anything to run for me hah. Curse my success! So...any takers? Oh and be aware if anyone offers a "cooperative game" that I'm interested in actually being challenged, so I will not offer up milieu solutions to myself.
Moderated by
Orc_Barrons
on Mar 22, 2013 - 09:27AM
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2 months ago ::
Mar 22, 2013 - 7:28AM
#83
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2012
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To Iserith: The thing is even then, nobody seems to know when a given scene is done already.
What techniques, or phrases, do you use to finish a scene without just going 'Right, good job, now you've left Pallet town and arrived at Viridian City'? I was struggling a bit with that in my game a few hours ago. Some of the players were really keen to plan rather than act, and I was trying to figure out ways to get them moving without being rude, without cutting their fun short, and without leaving the scene rather jarringly.
Moderated by
Orc_Barrons
on Mar 22, 2013 - 09:27AM
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2 months ago ::
Mar 22, 2013 - 8:53AM
#84
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What techniques, or phrases, do you use to finish a scene without just going 'Right, good job, now you've left Pallet town and arrived at Viridian City'? I was struggling a bit with that in my game a few hours ago. Some of the players were really keen to plan rather than act, and I was trying to figure out ways to get them moving without being rude, without cutting their fun short, and without leaving the scene rather jarringly.
It starts before the scene begins with either a question or statement aimed at defining the goal of the scene: "The goal is to convince the king to sign the treaty." Or "we need to stop the orcs from getting through the gate". Or "I'd sure like to find out more about Ragnar's past with regard to the swamp witches." That's really the most important part. Once that goal is achieved, made somehow impossible to achieve, or is no longer relevant, someone calls for the scene to end. "It sounds like the king is onboard." Or "It would seem the orcs have gotten through the gate - this could be troublesome." Then move on. If you struggle to imagine what the goal of the scene is (or what failure could look like), then it's probably not worth playing out. Narrate an outcome (or ask your players to do so) and move on to something that's actually at stake. Note that "at stake" can mean combat but it can just as easily mean something learned, established, or changed about the PCs in a non-combat transition scene.
As far as the planning rather than acting, this generally falls into the category of failure mitigation discussions in my view. Some planning is necessary and interesting, but if it turns into a situation in which players are throwing out ideas only to have one or more players shoot them down, then that's a separate problem from knowing when a scene should end. In this case, the players are blocking - saying "no" to each other in one fashion or another. That's usually very unproductive. Blocking is all about control and in most cases it's players against other players rather than true character to character interaction. It keeps the action from moving forward or the characters from changing (as you pointed out) with the "planning" going round and round. It's also one of the best ways to get the barbarian to charge.
So in short, it starts before the scene begins - frame its purpose and goal while describing the atmospherics. Once the group agrees the goal has been or can no longer be achieved, cut!
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2 months ago ::
Mar 22, 2013 - 9:27AM
#85
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Date Joined:
Sep 20, 2012
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I’ve removed content from this thread because trolling/baiting is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: company.wizards.com/conductPlease keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
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