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2 months ago ::
Mar 14, 2013 - 5:26PM
#31
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Date Joined:
Jun 14, 2006
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I meant the racial weapon training, I'm a jungle dwarf, I grew up bouncing from tree to tree wielding a blowgun, a tiger gut garrote, and a club. Why would taking a level of fighter give me a damage bonus with axes and hammers?
There are no Jungle Dwarves; maybe you're thinking of pigmies.
Seriously though, if you make a new race (or sub-race) that doesn't fit with the traditional racial traits, note it in their write-up and add/remove what is necessary for your vision.
The initial release material cannot cover everthing.
Forgotten Realms has jungle dwarves.
The point being that it makes little sense to give your races culutural traits like favored weapons- knowing full well that their culture will change (often drastically) between gameworlds. Not even WOTC's own published settings really have their elves favoring similar weapons.
Stuff that's inherited or a matter of anatomy- patience, sharp senses, nimbleness, and (relatively) long life- are traits that pretty much all elves tend to share. Give us more stuff that reflects this and less bonuses to specific weapons groups.
Save that for backgrounds, regional/cultural bonuses, feats, and other options.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 14, 2013 - 7:29PM
#32
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An alternate approach would be to give races bonuses or whatever with their favorite weapons as those traits are understood to be something that Brand X Generic versions of the race are likely to favor, and then alter those for different cultures as they're introduced. D&D has never really had a problem saying, "These are frost elves. They have some of the same stats as regular elves, and some different stats." That's not necessarily a better approach, but I think it's also okay.
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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2 months ago ::
Mar 14, 2013 - 7:31PM
#33
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My vote for Human traits: no stat bonus, no weapon training, just a bonus feat and bonus skill. I play humans 90% of the time, and that's all I want out of them.
I honestly hope they stay as far from bonus feat and skill as they can. I just feel it's been played out. The same can be said for some of the other "classic" racial abilities as well.
My two copper.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 14, 2013 - 8:21PM
#34
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2009
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I meant the racial weapon training, I'm a jungle dwarf, I grew up bouncing from tree to tree wielding a blowgun, a tiger gut garrote, and a club. Why would taking a level of fighter give me a damage bonus with axes and hammers?
There are no Jungle Dwarves; maybe you're thinking of pigmies.
Seriously though, if you make a new race (or sub-race) that doesn't fit with the traditional racial traits, note it in their write-up and add/remove what is necessary for your vision.
The initial release material cannot cover everthing.
Forgotten Realms has jungle dwarves.
The point being that it makes little sense to give your races culutural traits like favored weapons- knowing full well that their culture will change (often drastically) between gameworlds. Not even WOTC's own published settings really have their elves favoring similar weapons.
Stuff that's inherited or a matter of anatomy- patience, sharp senses, nimbleness, and (relatively) long life- are traits that pretty much all elves tend to share. Give us more stuff that reflects this and less bonuses to specific weapons groups.
Save that for backgrounds, regional/cultural bonuses, feats, and other options.
There must be a baseline; tradition is that baseline. Everything else is an addition/expansion to that baseline. The initial release has to be based in that baseline, so that everything else can be properly added/expanded to it.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 14, 2013 - 8:33PM
#35
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Date Joined:
Dec 19, 2007
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I agree with 'Rampant - Humans aren't just adaptive and versatile because it's a good idea, but because we are hungry and ambitious and afraid.'
Regarding Humans in Fantasy - there are different ways to handle this
In Warhammer the default humans are from the empire. Educated folk in a well patroled nation, pantheon of gods but dominated by the state religion
You could make them former slaves, so while they look out for eachother in terms of education and weapon training, they haven't carved out an nation yet since they only earned their freedom 2 generations ago. So they would start with several languages and either con or char bonus (workers and traders) - abit like the primative Humans in the Stargate movie. In this example the Humans would either be barbarian tribesfolk, or small percentage in every town in every nation.
I'd rather not give a stat bonus, just 1 knowledge, 1 craft and 1 weapon skill.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 14, 2013 - 9:09PM
#36
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Date Joined:
Oct 26, 2004
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The baseline must also be appealing and exciting, the faux tolkein retreads just don't cut it on their own anymore.
Also enough with the bonus skills and stuff. Give humans real gorram features for once. My favorites include the encounter power to help as a minor action, the ability to re-roll 1s on attack rolls.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 15, 2013 - 1:55AM
#37
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Date Joined:
Jan 12, 2012
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I like how Mass Effect did it. Its a blend of the 'versatile' and 'ambitious' Human archtypes, but what I really liked about them was the Human refusal to accept the status quo the other species of Citadel Space expected from them.
The Council essentially wanted to use Humanity as a blunt instrument against their various problem. Stabilize dangerous areas of Citadel Space, fight so the Asari and Salarians won't have to, counter-balance the military strength of the Turians, do everything we tell you and then we'll let you into our elite club.
Humans, collectively, said screw that, and it caused the aliens of Council Space to really be wary of the new kids on the block. Because Humans absolutely refuse to accept that they are inferior to anyone. Council threatens to economically sanction the crap out of you? Threaten war, you'll lose, but destroy their economies in the process! You're not allowed to build battleships? Make aircraft carriers! The Salarians have better trained spies than you? Create an experimental stealth starship and say 'Neener neener neener'! Turians are better in a frontline engagement? Go around them and blow their supply lines!
The real hat of Mass Effect Humans is their supernatural ability to disagree with everything anyone says or does. Even their own thoughts. Since there's never any agreement about what works best, they try everything. Since accepting the status quo for anything would give others the power to force them to stop disagreeing with everything, they're ambitious and power hungry.
I like that as a default for Humanity. Its not that they aren't the best at anything, its just that others have largely settled for something (Smithing and Brewing! Enviromentalism and Snottiness!) while Humans are still constantly trying to find new things to be best at.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 15, 2013 - 3:54AM
#38
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Date Joined:
Oct 11, 2009
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The baseline must also be appealing and exciting, the faux tolkein retreads just don't cut it on their own anymore.
Also enough with the bonus skills and stuff. Give humans real gorram features for once. My favorites include the encounter power to help as a minor action, the ability to re-roll 1s on attack rolls.
I find the traditional races appealing and exciting. They do cut it, if they satisfy the majority opinion.
As far as bonus skills and feats, I actually agree with you on those. I was just giving examples and didn't want to leave out anyone's preferred choices.
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2 months ago ::
Mar 15, 2013 - 4:52AM
#39
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Date Joined:
Aug 13, 2004
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I think humans as a young race in a fantasy setting would look at what they want from the other races and try to buy, rent, steal and then study them.
One generation after acquisition, they would have their own version of it, and the arms race would start, forcing the old races to adapt to the new pace of the world, and then hate the humans for that, regretting the good old times with goblinoids and giants.
"They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins." - thecasualoblivion
"Vancian isn't broken, you just have to set your game to the wizard's clock!" - Oxybe
"In many ways, making a new edition of D&D is alot like trying to sell a car to the Amish." - Dwarfslayer
"Encounters are the heart of the AD&D game" - PHB AD&D 2nd edition.
"you shouldn't even bother trying to become like me." - Gary Gygax (Elfcrusher confirmed)
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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2 months ago ::
Mar 15, 2013 - 6:22AM
#40
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4e human was my favorite implementation of humans. I like the fluff and I especially like th mechanics.
5e human with the +1 to everything is just to mask the racial penalties of the other races. Even their bonus aren't their bonuses, they are other races penalties in disguise. The gave a value to racial penalties, removed the penalty and gave humans a state bump to offset it.
I actually like the flavor used to describe the bland mechanic, "The most daring and ambitious members of a daring and ambitious race". If they decide to change the mechanics (don't know how they will mask the racial penalties if they do), I think they should develop around the same flavor.
Love 4e? Concerned about its future? join the Old Guard of 4th EditionReality Refracted: Social ContractsD & D: A Documentary Kickstarter ( http://kck.st/SyKNzf) 
Dreaming the Impossible Dream
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Imagine a world where the first-time D&D player rolls stats, picks a race, picks a class, picks an alignment, and buys gear to create a character. Imagine if an experienced player, maybe the person helping our theoretical player learn the ropes, could also make a character by rolling ability scores and picking a race, class, feat, skills, class features, spells or powers, and so on. Those two players used different paths to build characters, but the system design allows them to play at the same table. -Mearl
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