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Apr 1, 2013 -- 1:13AM, Koshinuke wrote:

There is only 2 ways to apply ongoing damage "at will" that i know of. 

The first is cruel cut style which means that it costs a feat to do and only certain classes/powers can use it. 
The other way is being a wererat, which costs a theme, and using the given power which only gives 5 ongoing damage if you have CA. 

Both of those costs might be too high.  CCS also requires an investment in wisdom which only the fighter version makes sense.

The biggest point that they have made through the entire thread is that ongoing damage usually costs too much for a return.  Considering you are giving up something to get it which is most often more direct damage. 

When the resources to get an effect outstrip the usefulness of the effect, the worth of the effect is diminished.   

using consuming the Weak(sp?) all you have to do is hit a target vulnerable to fire with an arcane fire attack to get 5 ongoing fire.  My warlock is of the elemental pact sort so i just make sure my elemental affinity is set to fire and "bob's your uncle" at-will 5 ongoing fire.

As an asside would optimizing for the feats icy clutch of stygia and hellfire master in the context above be an "acceptible" version of an OGD build?


Also, i assume that an intensifying weapon would apply with my application of OGD fire and would apply to each instance of ongoing damage that i would have applied concurrently.  My goal was to get at least 3 to 5 instances of OGD in the nova round and hope that the target would save vs all of them. 

I thought that was OGD's that are of the same type.

My plan is :

5 Fire(consume the weak)
2 acid(caustic whetstone)
10 untyped(AP feature of Blood Mage)

or

5 cold*(Fire Burst(Wiz lvl3 enc) changed to cold by warlock elemental pact feature)
2 acid(caustic whetstone)
10 untyped(AP feature of Blood Mage)
10 fire(second wind feature of blood mage(as a minor action)


In addition to these have a daily that imposes some other save condition for fun.

Per the compendium -

Different Types of Ongoing Damage: If a creature is subjected to ongoing damage of different types (including no type) at the same time, it takes damage of each of those types every round, and it must make a separate saving throw against each damage type.

I figured that having to force 3, 4, or possibly 5 save ends effects along with the save ends punishment would be a good catch-22.

Elemental Pact feature can only change force, necrotic, poison, or psychic into an elemental type; it cannot change one elemental type (in this case fire) into a different elemental type (cold).

So yeah, dealing 17 Ongoing is pretty much the limit for your Encounter Nova ... well, that's not even remotely true, it's actually closer to 100 when you start fiddling with Vuln and including Hellfire and Stygia. It can actually get a lot better than that, but that's entering territory that I don't think we've spent any time arguing about here - Now that the RC defines OGD as being dealt by the power, extra (not bonus) damage like Radiant One might be legal sources for increasing it, certainly it should increase Hellfire and Stygia though.

"Some powers deal damage on consecutive turns after the initial attack. Such damage is called ongoing damage." RC 224. It's no longer "My power causes OGD 5, OGD 5 deals 5 damage at the start of their turn." And since we know that OGD is affected by Vuln, which is a source of "Extra Damage", it stands to reason that OGD is affected by other sources of Extra Damage that would also apply. It just remains to be commonly accepted whether or not we're going to follow the logical assumptions here like we do with things like Mark of Storm, or take that line from the RC as descriptive.