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Mar 10, 2013 -- 10:17AM, lokiare wrote:

Ok, how about the HP you have at first level is your 'physical' hit points and any hit points above that is luck, stamina, endurance, and skill.

So a Fighter has 12 hit points at 1st level (10+2 from con mod) and 20 at 2nd (6 +2 from con mod) but only the first 12 are physical. Some attacks could bypass the non-physical hit points like critical hits from weapons, poison, certain necromantic spells, etc...etc... So when you lose those 12 hit points lets say from a Goblin spear that got a critical, but you still had the rest of your hit points, you would go down and require magical healing or long term rest. Then the Cleric heals you for 12 hit points and you get back up with a full 20 (because you went down from your physical hit points dropping to 0, but your non-physical hit points weren't touched). Then say the Goblin hits you again for 5 points of damage, but because its not a crit, poison, or necromantic attack, it is taken from your 8 non-physical hit points. Then the Warlord shouts at you to push on through the pain and we almost have them and other encouraging phrases and heals you for 8 non-phyical hit points. I think that would work if WotC/Mearls indicated that 'here are your physical hit points and here are your non-physical hit points'...

That is close to what Im doing. I bound the hell out of hp. You get your con score at 1 +2-6 depending on class then classes gain an average of 1 hp a level so the bottom third is close to starting hp but injuries can occur with any crit.

Mar 10, 2013 -- 2:27PM, Tevish_Szat wrote:

The reason HP have to have a physical component is that some attacks have an on-hit component that clearly implies making contact.

The simplest example is a poisoned weapon versus a regular weapon.  When a poisoned attack scores a hit, it delivers its poison.  In order for it to have its effect and force a save, that poison must have entered its victim's bloodstream.

Perhaps there was a luck component as well: clearly, the man with 6 hit points and the one with 60 were not equally injured by a 3 damage + Poison attack: one was stabbed, the other was nicked.  But in either case blood was drawn, because otherwise the poison must have teleported.

You COULD argue that "poisoned attacks are different", but then what you get is an envenoed shortsword leaving its victims covered in tiny cuts while the normal one didn't draw a drop until the final stab-through-the-heart.  From the exact same rolls.  This makes far less sense than assuming things ought to visualize the same way across poison/no poison, and one of two ways makes sense.

Another example?  Damage types.  Right now slashing/piercing/bludgeoning is in the game, but even if you assume all that damage is balled up into "physical", there's still almost assuredly going to be typed fire damage, per say.  If you're running out of ephemeral luck until the last hit that brings you to 0, why would some things care about whether some of that luck was lost to dodging flames rather than a sword or a claw?  This only makes sense if at least some portion of the attack is connecting.  the "Damage Done : Max HP" ratio is a good rule of thumb for whether someone's been incinerated or singed, but there was still some, well, damage to their physical form even in the mildest case.  A creature with "Vulnerability to fnord" is no less capable of getting entirely out of the way of "Fnord" than a non "fnord" attack of the exact same size and skill, but IS more hurt by a hit of equal force.

Takeaway: A hit implies a hit.  Not necessarily a good one, but a hit.  HP do represent luck/skill in part (especially for PCs) because a more experienced hero won't tend to take great, mortal wounds as easily, but when you roll a hit, you actually hit what you were rolling at.

this

Mar 10, 2013 -- 3:23PM, Tony_Vargas wrote:

How 'bout "bounded injuries."  If you want hps to be all-physical, your character just gets his 1st level hps, full stop.  You get hit, you get hurt, case closed.

i use the hps are all real damage and give characters hps based on level. this level of metagaming is not needed just distracts from too much at the table and the players understand this and accept it and move on. if i wanted a 20 page section of rules on hps and what are real and what arent id play rollmaster or some other game.

Mar 10, 2013 -- 6:25PM, Tony_Vargas wrote:

Mar 10, 2013 -- 5:54PM, justmike1976 wrote:

i use the hps are all real damage and give characters hps based on level.

And just provide no rationale for why they can take more damage?  Why then, would you even worry about "all real damage" or not?

i dont because if i wanted to play a system with total realism i wouldnt be playing a fantasy rpg id be doing a modern game. you can bog your game down with all these rules, ill play my way and the players understand that hps arent the best way to show realism but that is a trade off to a fun and engaging game.

Mar 10, 2013 -- 7:21PM, MechaPilot wrote:

Mar 10, 2013 -- 5:43AM, strider13x wrote:

mrpopstar-
what do HP mean to you?
(your answer here)
great idea, then that's what they mean!

Mechapilot-
at what point does your character take a physical wound
(your answer here)
that's cool!

That's essentially my view as well.  That's why I am grateful for both the abstraction and its breadth.  One more example of breadth: I had a cleric character who was big on the religion part (lots of sacrifices, fasting, etc), and my DM at the time described his HPs as a kind of aura of divine protection.  A broad abstraction enables that kind of thing for people who want to use it, without requiring a separate mechanic, but also doesn't force it on those who don't want to see it that way.

My rogues hit points are all ungodly luck... (umm litterally ungodly).