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Switch to Forum Live View Recommended maneuvers for a Warblade 6/Crusader 1
3 months ago  ::  Mar 09, 2013 - 8:04PM #1
Orohu
Date Joined: Apr 23, 2011
Posts: 43
My current character is a CG Natural Lythari LA 2, Warblade/Warshaper Gestalt 4, Warblade/Crusader Gestalt 1, and Warblade 1. He effectively has 6 levels in Warblade, and 1 level in Crusader. He is currently wielding a size Huge Hornblade Great Falchion (He has Jotunbrud, and the DM specifically made the Hornblade weapon for my character) that does 4d6+mod damage (18-20 x2). He has Improved Critical and Combat Reflexes (his dex is +3), as well as all of the perks that his class and racial LAs give him, like Morphic Reach.

I'm not exactly sure what my maneuvers I should get for my character since I haven't truly updated them since Warblade 4, so I need to decide the replacement ones per class, and I haven't even started to pick the Crusader ones yet.

Known Warblade Maneuvers:
Moment of Perfect Mind
Charging Minotaur
Leading the Attack
Steel Wind
Mountain Hammer
White Raven Tactics

Known Warblade Stances:
Punishing Stance

Known Crusader Maneuvers:

Known Crusader Stances:


Any input is greatly appreciated.
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3 months ago  ::  Mar 13, 2013 - 3:54PM #2
aelryinth
Date Joined: Jul 8, 2001
Posts: 4,226
when did you get the Crusader level? It affects what you can take because your ML will be higher.


What's your build goal? What's your target stance? (the thorns stance from Crusader is the most popular).


You really need to put down what manuvers you got, and at what levels, and from what class. Remember you can retrain up.

It's also a lot of work going through a manuver progression. I suggest looking through some of the builds here, like Pinball Brothers and the like, to get some ideas what to to with a Warblade. Tempest has posted at least 3 builds that are primarily Warblade and/or Crusader levels, and that should be all the advice you need.

==Aelryinth        
Fighter vs Warblade analysis  http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19573526/Analyzing_the_Fighter_vs_The_Warblade

The Lockdown F/20 iconic build    http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19856162/A_little_Lock_build_for_you
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3 months ago  ::  Mar 13, 2013 - 4:22PM #3
Tempest_Stormwind
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2004
Posts: 4,786
There are other problems here besides the maneuvers.

Mar 9, 2013 -- 8:04PM, Orohu wrote:

My current character is a CG Natural Lythari LA 2, Warblade/Warshaper Gestalt 4, Warblade/Crusader Gestalt 1, and Warblade 1. He effectively has 6 levels in Warblade, and 1 level in Crusader.



Such a character is impossible. Warshaper requires base attack +4, and you have only three non-Warshaper levels. (I don't know what your race is; I'm assuming it's similar to lycanthropy from the "natural" description and approximate LA.)

He is currently wielding a size Huge Hornblade Great Falchion (He has Jotunbrud, and the DM specifically made the Hornblade weapon for my character) that does 4d6+mod damage (18-20 x2).



This is also impossible in a couple of different ways.
1) Jotunbrud is Human-only - and even if lythari have the human subtype, Jotunbrud is supposed to represent a particular heritage of its own, so for it to appear on a non-human implies that humans and the non-human race in question can interbreed and produce a member of the non-human race. (Examples of this do exist - kalashtar, for instance, can breed with humans; the child is kalashtar if it matches the gender of its kalasthar parent - but these are rare.)
2) Jotunbrud does not let you wield larger weapons. You're confusing it with the Powerful Build special ability (which is similar). I'm assuming Lythari are not Huge creatures - it's extremely difficult to find even Large creatures without either racial hit dice or a level adjustment.

It's also a numeric problem, because the real way to high damage in melee is Power Attack (with Strength of secondary import); actual weapon size is usually a disadvantage and always an opportunity cost (that is, you sink resources into using a bigger stick, when those resources could be better spent kicking significantly more ass with a slightly smaller stick.).

He has Improved Critical and Combat Reflexes (his dex is +3), as well as all of the perks that his class and racial LAs give him, like Morphic Reach.



How is he qualifying for Improved Critical (Base Attack +8) with only 6 hit dice?

It's possible you're confusing Level Adjustment with racial hit dice (they're similar in that they take up space that could be spent on class levels, but pretty much entirely different otherwise), which would also explain how you got into Warshaper (Racial HD 2 / [warblade//crusader] 1 / warblade 1 / [warblade//warshaper]) - but that's an extremely bizarre way of listing class level progression, and would demand quite a bit of numerical jujitsu to correct.

I'm not exactly sure what my maneuvers I should get for my character since I haven't truly updated them since Warblade 4, so I need to decide the replacement ones per class, and I haven't even started to pick the Crusader ones yet.



As Aelryinth said, when you learn the maneuvers matters quite a lot - you can learn higher-level maneuvers at lower class levels due to the way Initiator Level works (with one exception: the stance you learn with your first class level is always level 1). We REALLY need to know the timing on these levels to be able to help.

(For that matter, I'm also curious why only some of your levels are gestalted.)

A suggestion when you're designing Tome characters: Plan out your levels in advance, up to however far you expect the game to go (this isn't always 20; several games die before then), and then work backwards from desired goals. That way you always know how many maneuvers of a particular school you have to know and by which level you need to know them. Remember that while each class has a separate initiator level, maneuvers and stances from one class can fulfil prerequisites from the other (i.e. if you know Leading the Attack and White Raven Tactics as a warblade, then you count as knowing two White Raven maneuvers for whichever Crusader maneuvers you select, although you use your crusader IL to select them), and that maneuvers, stances, and maneuver swaps can be timed however you like for prerequisite purposes (i.e. you can use Steel Wind to qualify for Iron Heart Surge, then unlearn Steel Wind - you don't lose a maneuver if you no longer have its prerequisites).

You can kill two birds with one stone here by listing out your progression as a series of levels, something like this (inferred from above - complete with the errors I mentioned)
1 Warblade 1 // Warshaper 1 [Feat?] [Three maneuvers] [one warblade stance]
2 Warblade 2 // Warshaper 2 [one warblade maneuver]
3 Warblade 3 // Warshaper 3 [Feat?] [one warblade maneuver]
4 Warblade 4 // Warshaper 4 [one warblade stance] [possible warblade swap]
5 Warblade 5 // Crusader 1 [Warblade bonus feat] [one warblade maneuver] [five crusader maneuvers] [one crusader stance]
6 Warblade 6 [Feat?] [one warblade maneuver] [possible warblade swap]
7 LEVEL ADJUSTMENT
8 LEVEL ADJUSTMENT

Cancer prognosis: I am now cancer-free.

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[TS] Tempest Stormwind, [AR] Andarious Rosethorn, [RT] Radical Taoist, [SN] Sionnis, [DH] DisposableHero_, [SH] Seishi.

[TS] The Pinball Brothers: Large And In Charge (Melee, Lockdown, Charge, Juggling)
[TS] Ashardalon Reborn: I Will Swallow Your Soul (Melee, Fear, Negative Levels, AoE, Theme)
[AR] "A"-Game Paladin: Play That Funky Music, Knight Boy! (Team Support, Melee, Theme, Single-Class)
[RT] Uncanny Trapsmith: Get in, make it look like an accident, get out. (Skillmonkey, Stealth/Scout/Infiltration, Unorthodox Methods, Theme)
[AR] Wizsassin: *Everything* is permitted. (Spellcaster, Support, Sneak Attack, Utility)
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[TS] Dread Lord of the Dead: Let the Reaping Begin! (NPC-only, Variable (combat/casting/leadership), Iconic Villain, Theme)
[AR] Heavy Crusader: No Rest. No Mercy. No Matter What. (Melee, Damage (No charging), Variable, Theme).
[TS] Gun Fu: It's bullet time (Ranged, THEORETICAL, Twin weapons, Theme)
[RT] Face First: We should talk. (Psionic, social, mind-control, info-management)
[SN] Chaingun Porcupine: Never Enuff Dakka. (Ranged, Skirmishing, Spike Damage, Incarnum)
[RT] Always On Edge: The Mortal Draw deals death. (Melee, Generalist, Dungeoneering, Stunt)
[AR] Feral Druid: Real feral taste. Zero druid calories. (Melee, offense, damage, murder)
[RT] Rusty!: Man's Best Friend (Sentry, Support, Backup, Rearguard)
[RT] The T3 (Tashalatora Triple Threat): My Kung Fu is More Powerful (Hybrid, Flex-Function, Melee, Caster)
[RT] The #1 Snoipah: Boom. 'Eadshot. (Caster, Theme, Spike, Trapscout)
[AR] Dreamblade: Rest in Pieces. (Melee, Damage, Single-Class, Combo/Momentum)
[AR] Evasion Tank: “When fighting angry blind men, is best to stay out of the way.” (Melee, Tank, Unorthodox Methods (attack negation), Theme)
[DH] Psycarnum Warrior: ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA Start (Melee, Tank, Psionics, Incarnum, 1337 h4x)
[AR] Heavy Weapons Elf: WHO TOUCHED MY BOW? (Ranged, Cohort, Damage, Unorthodox Methods (ranged ToB))
[RT] Gnowhere Gnome: A little man who wasn't there (Caster, Stealth, Single-Class, Elusive)
[AR] Uberflank: I got your back. (Melee, support, stunt, teamwork)
[TS] Flip the Bird: Everyday I'm shuffling (Ranged, harrier, unorthodox methods (ranged ToB / off-turn movement), support)
[DH] Eat Sleep Gank: Real Ultimate Power (Stealth, Assassination, Spike, Magic Versatility)
[AR] Slash and Burn: Mind, Body, Blade, Flame / Aspects of a greater whole / which delivers death. (Melee, Theme (flex-style), Damage, Stunt)
[RT] Edge of the Light: Cut, Fade to Black (Melee, Defense/Offense, Momentum, Tactical)
[RT] Quiet Murder: Cut throats, not corners. (Melee, Stealth, Harrier, Tactical)
[TS] Wand Overdrive: Say Hello to my little friends. (Caster, support/artillery/variable, wand specialist)
[RT] God Hand: What did the five fingers say to the face? (Melee/Gish, Unarmed, SAD, Theme)
[AR] Zero Buff Time Gish: Try to keep up! (Gish, Speed, Movement, Opportunity)
[TS] Robo Tackle: I Am Iron Man. (Melee, setting-specific (Eberron), positioning, theme, stunt)


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Dungeons & Dra.. Previous Editions .. Recommended maneuvers for a Warblade 6/Crusader 1
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