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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 9:02PM
#1
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2011
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For Inauspicious Vulnerability, the effect line (which I hope was written by a non-English speaker) says "Enemies in burst gains a vulnerability 10 + your Charisma modifier to cold, fire, lightning, and thunder (save ends)."
If that enemy gets hit by an attack that does every one of those damage types (say via Hands of the Titan), does it ping the vulnerability multiple times? As in, should this be read as "vuln 10 + Cha mod to cold, AND vuln 10 + Cha mod to fire, AND ..." Or is it a single vulnerability? Or is it a single vulnerability that *only* applies if you deal all 4 damage types at once?
That PP's powers are among the worst-written things in 4e, by the way. Ever notice how, if you hit just one enemy with Divine Tilt, then *all* the enemies take the penalty to defenses? At least it has the implement keyword now...
I am okay with you saying my argument is stupid, or commits the munchkin fallacy, or any other bad thing you want. Particularly if you give a reason/explanation for it.
However, I will ignore any post that calls me stupid, or a munchkin, or what have you. Not because it bothers me; I've just found that people only start name-calling when that's the best argument they have left.
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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 9:56PM
#2
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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should this be read as "vuln 10 + Cha mod to cold, AND vuln 10 + Cha mod to fire, AND ..."
Yes. Being vulnerable to a damage type means a creature takes extra damage from that damage type, even when it is combined with another.
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 11:15PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2011
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So an attack that deals all 4 damage types will trigger all 4 vulnerabilities, meaning Inauspicious Vulnerability + Firewind Blade + Hands of the Titan = ~100 extra damage per melee hit?
So hypothetically, a Luckbringer of Tymora does Divine Tilt, AP, Inauspicious Vulnerability. Divine Tilt hits 3 enemies (it's a close burst 5, after all). Each hit gives all enemies in the burst (whether they were hit or not) a -5 penalty to defenses, and penalties stack, so every enemy in the burst has a -15 to defenses. Then the IV attack happens, and now they also all have huge multi-type vulnerability, so one or two multi-type AoEs and down they all go (Unraveling Dart looks useful all of a sudden).
Neat.
I am okay with you saying my argument is stupid, or commits the munchkin fallacy, or any other bad thing you want. Particularly if you give a reason/explanation for it.
However, I will ignore any post that calls me stupid, or a munchkin, or what have you. Not because it bothers me; I've just found that people only start name-calling when that's the best argument they have left.
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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 11:18PM
#4
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Date Joined:
May 12, 2009
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Each hit gives all enemies in the burst (whether they were hit or not) a -5 penalty to defenses, and penalties stack, so every enemy in the burst has a -15 to defenses
No Penalties add together, unless they’re from the same named game element. (RC314)
Yan
Montréal, Canada
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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 11:21PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Jan 21, 2011
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Right, so only -5. Still stupidly strong, but not *as* stupidly stong I guess.
I am okay with you saying my argument is stupid, or commits the munchkin fallacy, or any other bad thing you want. Particularly if you give a reason/explanation for it.
However, I will ignore any post that calls me stupid, or a munchkin, or what have you. Not because it bothers me; I've just found that people only start name-calling when that's the best argument they have left.
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3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 11:30PM
#6
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Date Joined:
Aug 20, 2003
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That PP's powers are among the worst-written things in 4e, by the way. Ever notice how, if you hit just one enemy with Divine Tilt, then *all* the enemies take the penalty to defenses? At least it has the implement keyword now...
Stuff out of Dragon/Dungeon does tend to have bad editing, but you're right, this is an especially bad example
For Inauspicious Vulnerability, the effect line (which I hope was written by a non-English speaker) says "Enemies in burst gains a vulnerability 10 + your Charisma modifier to cold, fire, lightning, and thunder (save ends)."
If that enemy gets hit by an attack that does every one of those damage types (say via Hands of the Titan), does it ping the vulnerability multiple times? As in, should this be read as "vuln 10 + Cha mod to cold, AND vuln 10 + Cha mod to fire, AND ..." Or is it a single vulnerability? Or is it a single vulnerability that *only* applies if you deal all 4 damage types at once?
The creature now has 4 different addtional vulnerabilities, on top of any resistances and vulnerabilities it already had. A single saving throw ends all four of these new vulnerabilties.
What isn't explicitly clear in the rules is if you hit the creature with an attack that does two or more of the damage types, do you only add vulnerability once or do you add it for each damage type.
For example, if your charisma modifier is +5, and affected creature is then targeted by Elemental Maw, should that be +15 damage or +60?
The rules on RC 225-226 indicate it would be the +60, as the non-cumulative rule specifies that vulnerabilities to the same damage type are not cumulative, but puts no duch restriction on vulnerabilities to multiple damage types caused by the same power.
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3 months ago ::
Mar 08, 2013 - 5:41AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Mar 13, 2010
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I have no authoritative rules quote to settle this, but my group reads it as +60 in that instance. That is, if a creature had vuln. 10 thunder and vuln. 10 lightning, and then got vuln 15 to thunder / lightning / fire / cold, he'd have vuln 15 (though not 25) to all 4 types, and if an omni-elemental (or near enough) blast hit it, the target would take 60 bonus damage due to the vulnerabilities.
We just started a new campaign at mid-paragon with a good chunk of the party abusing thunder&lightning powers, and one of our members is thinking of rolling a rather odd Luckbringer bard, so if the game continues for a few levels, we hope to have some wicked fun abusing that. Also, good grief - Elemental Maw is glorious with a Luckbringer. At 25, that zone (after the debuff) would do what, 78 auto-damage? 82 with an 18 pre-racial Cha?
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3 months ago ::
Mar 13, 2013 - 12:25AM
#8
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And when PC's start to abuse multiple vulnerabilities, so do the NPCs ...
What do you mean it's mean to stack multiple damage auras with multiple vulnerability auras? I thought that's how you wanted to play the game?!
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating. Actually, devastating is too light a word. Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25 Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul; Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind; Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire; The MECH warrior reaches perfection. My Guides
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2 months ago ::
Mar 18, 2013 - 10:04PM
#9
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I was going to say, "but if resistances don't stack, why would vulnerabilities stack?" But then I realized how messed up that power is.
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