|
3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 1:02PM
#51
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
|
That doesn't mean that we'll stop trying to explain what we think they should be doing.
Again, yes. Don't stop pointing out things you don't like about the playtest material, and don't stop making suggestions for things you want to see.
But you need to understand that there are constructive ways to give feedback and unconstructive ways. Insulting the designers (such as saying that "they did not understand the mechanics they were attempting to modify") is not only a bad way to get your point across, it is just plain rude.
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 1:31PM
#52
|
|
|
Ari, you and I usually get along but I disagree on the subject of rudeness. If I said that they were expletive deleted incompetents who couldn't make a game worth playing if their lives depended on it, that would be rude (I am being a litte extreme here).
That's not what I said. THey demonstrated that they did not understand those mechanics, In a live podcast no less, when maintaining several things about Clerics being better controllers than Wizards, Assassin's Strike being used in conjunction with Divine Oracle, etc (Erachima's blog and the resulting conversation better exemplify my position here).
I'm trying to point out why there is a perception among a certain element that will cause them (us?) to take certain things in the worst possible way and that they need to think about what they say and write when they could perpetuate that perception (I still haven't forgiven the Tea Caddy crack yet either, not until they make an apology instead of just ignoring the outrage it caused).
Now, I may not have been clear as I do think they are compentent and/or talented designers. I think the Vampire class (as a not so random example) is quite serviceable in a 'normal' 4th edition D&D game (as demonstrated repeatedly by Popesixtus in his from the labs threads) and that was also their work.
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 1:42PM
#53
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
|
Jonathan: sure, and I didn't say you were being EXTREMELY rude.
When you say that "it is not my contention that they are completely without talent or incompetent", that is an insult and it is rude. Think of it this way: if someone said to you, "Jonathan_sicari, you aren't a COMPLETE failure." would you take it as a contructive comment, or as a rude one?
Personally, I see it as rude.
There is nothing wrong with giving negative feedback on the material. But when people start insulting the designers themselves, I call it rude.
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 1:46PM
#54
|
|
|
Hm, that was damning with faint praise wasn't it. Let me edit that.
I should note that I am finally having fun with this ****ing playtest so they must be going in the right direction.
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 2:03PM
#55
|
Date Joined:
Mar 25, 2007
|
Re natural healing - i just hope there are a few options to choose from right off the bat. Some of us like slow healing, others fast. Give us the choice and everyone wins!
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 4:06PM
#56
|
Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2010
|
Physical damage or otherwise, the fighter should recover hit points faster than a wizard, versus an equal rate, just because combat is the fighters things. The wizard is the weekend warrior hitting the books to study while the fighter is a seasoned athlete. For the same amount of time the wizard should not be fully recovered and a fighter is still damaged. That is why proportional healing makes sense. So for natural recovery the decision is how fast, and a simple solution is based on hit dice tables - 1d6 /1d8 - 1 hp/hr, 1d10/1d12 - 2hp/hr. Healing from divine magic is external to the character, so that is more likely to heal equally.
For 4E the hourly recovery rate can represent healing surges, the hit dice healing can represent non-magical healing based on a progression similar to a cleric, or maybe stagger it at a slower rate. So if the cleric progresses in healing 1d8 x Level of Spell, then a 4E type healer may lag behind by 1/2, so when a cleric has a 4d8 heal spell, the 4e healer would get a 2d8 type of heal. You could also play with how often a cleric can use a heal spell versus a 4e type healer because a cleric can substitute in heals at any time, while the 4e healer has a more rigid resource management structure. But for a class like the warlord it is one tool amongst many to keep the party going. So the diverse nature of warlord may keep pace with the raw power of cleric healing. At least those are some of my thoughts on the subject.
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 4:16PM
#57
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
|
Hm, that was damning with faint praise wasn't it. Let me edit that.
I should note that I am finally having fun with this ****ing playtest so they must be going in the right direction.
I am having fun with this -ing playtest too! And thank you for being reasonable.
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 4:16PM
#58
|
Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
|
No offense Arithezoo, but I find it icnreasingly hard to take your argument seriously when people supporting you make comments like this. Then you should really just sit silently and watch.
"Positive feedback or shut up" is not a helpful thing to say with people who are asking why we should continue to have interest in 5e.
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 4:19PM
#59
|
Date Joined:
Aug 31, 2008
|
No offense Arithezoo, but I find it icnreasingly hard to take your argument seriously when people supporting you make comments like this.
Then you should really just sit silently and watch.
"Positive feedback or shut up" is not a helpful thing to say with people who are asking why we should continue to have interest in 5e.
Don't force my argument to rest on the words of other people. I have never told people to stop giving feedback, nor will I ever.
I have simply said that giving negative feedback on the playtest material is one thing. Insulting the designers is another.
You can disagree with me if you want, but don't make the reason be what someone else said. Unless you want me to say that I can't take your own argument seriously because of what this guy once said:
"Flibidegibet. Ragglemuffin. Blorglesnort." -Arithezoo
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Mar 07, 2013 - 4:25PM
#60
|
Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
|
No offense Arithezoo, but I find it icnreasingly hard to take your argument seriously when people supporting you make comments like this.
Then you should really just sit silently and watch.
"Positive feedback or shut up" is not a helpful thing to say with people who are asking why we should continue to have interest in 5e.
Don't force my argument to rest on the words of other people. I have never told people to stop giving feedback, nor will I ever.
I have simply said that giving negative feedback on the playtest material is one thing. Insulting the designers is another.
You can disagree with me if you want, but don't make the reason be what someone else said. Unless you want me to say that I can't take your own argument seriously because of what this guy once said:
"Flibidegibet. Ragglemuffin. Blorglesnort." -Arithezoo
No, but considering in this topic you openly support Maxperson who is telling people who aren't happy with the game to shut up, yes, it does hurt your side of the debate a bit.
|
|
|
