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Switch to Forum Live View Charming Bard, looking for feedback
3 months ago  ::  Mar 06, 2013 - 5:28AM #1
svendj
Date Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 2,049
I'l be taking a paragon Bard to the table this weekend, and I wanted to check if my idea has merit. 

The build has 2 encounter dominates through MC Druid for Charm Beast and the Heartwarder paragon path. This lets you enable your allies by making dominated enemies run past them, generating OA's with combat advantage all over the place. That beats most other ways a Bard has to generate attacks at that level. As an added bonus, you also stun the target for a round. 

Because it's a Prescient Bard, it also gets to turn 2 misses into hits every combat with Prescient Aid and Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade. (I know War Chanter is better for preventing misses, but the paragon path is already taken for the dominate plan)

Lastly, Echoing Weapon lets one ally do a doubletap. 

The Build Show

level 13 Deva, Bard, Heartwarder
Bardic Virtue Option: Virtue of Prescience
Born Under a Bad Sign (Born Under a Bad Sign Benefit)
Theme: Halaster's Clone

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 11, CON 14, DEX 9, INT 12, WIS 21, CHA 21

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 10, CON 13, DEX 8, INT 11, WIS 16, CHA 16


AC: 27 Fort: 21 Ref: 21 Will: 28
HP: 93 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 23

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +12, Diplomacy +16, History +14, Insight +16, Nature +16, Perception +16, Religion +14

POWERS
Halaster's Clone Utility: Alter Time
Deva Racial Power: Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes
Bard Feature: Majestic Word
Bard Feature: Words of Friendship
Cleric Utility: Healing Word
Bard Attack 1: Staggering Note
Bard Attack 1: Vicious Mockery
Bard Attack 1: Arrow of Warning
Invoker Attack 1: Hand of Radiance
Bard Utility 2: Moment of Escape
Bard Attack 3: Rhyme of the Blood-Seeking Blade
Bard Attack 5: Song of Discord
Druid Utility 6: Eagle's Splendor
Druid Attack 7: Charm Beast
Bard Attack 9: Counterpoint
Bard Utility 10: Mantle of Unity
Heartwarder Attack 11: Siren Voice
Heartwarder Utility 12: Sune's Shield
Bard Attack 3: Echoing Weapon

FEATS
Level 1: Battle Intuition
Level 2: Battle Song Expertise
Level 4: Sentinel Initiate
Level 7: Novice Power
Level 8: Acolyte Power
Level 10: Acolyte of Divine Secrets
Level 11: Prescient Aid
Level 12: Superior Will

ITEMS
Magic Wand +3 
Distance Dagger +3 
Magic Chainmail +3 
Amulet of Protection +3


 
The thing I'm not too happy about is the defenses. Because it's a Wis/Cha build, the AC, Fort and Ref are in the toilet (although Mantle of Unity does help). Being able to use my dagger as an implement so I can use a shield would help somewhat, as would being able to take Combat Virtuoso so I can assign some points to Int and/or Con, but the build appears to be too feat-starved for that. 

I could change race to Human for the extra feat, or take Elemental Initiate instead of Halaster's Clone so I can use a ki focus, but then I lose a LOT of initiative (have to use Dex instead of Wis and no +6 bonus). Dominating enemies before they can take their turn seems pretty important.

I can also lose Acolyte Power, but Eagle's Splendor is just nuts on a Bard. 

Should I just suck it up, watch out and stay in the back line, or is there something else I can do? Maybe there's a good hybrid I missed?

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3 months ago  ::  Mar 06, 2013 - 5:54AM #2
Matyr
Date Joined: Jun 19, 2004
Posts: 2,726
I see the goal here, but taking 2 feats to poach 2 abilities from a class makes me almost wonder why hybrid is not an option.

But then hybriding Druid is rather meh.

I dunno what more you can do here. 

As a note if you are really trying to pump as much dominate as possible onto this guy you could pick up, or try to pick up some of these:
Dominating Gaze (Vampire Feat power, turns your D15 into a dominate (SE)
Undying's Command (Feat + Channel Div)
Touch of Command (Warlock E7 IR)
Domineering Gaze (Vampire D9)
Command Insanity (Warlock D9)
Summon Succubus (Warlock D9)

With 3 good warlock dominates in there, would it maybe be worth it to go Bard|Lock if you are just going for a master of dominates. 
 
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3 months ago  ::  Mar 06, 2013 - 5:55AM #3
Mommy_was_an_Orc
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Posts: 4,977
Why not do a Bard|Sentinel?
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3 months ago  ::  Mar 06, 2013 - 6:49AM #4
Zathris
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2009
Posts: 4,218
Charismatic Leader with control interrupts: Warlock|Warlord/Bard/Student of Caiphon

You get a great MBA in Eldritch Strike, DTS for allies, Powerful Warning, Touch of command, VIM, Lead the Attack, Command Insanity, Song of Discord (swapped), and of course Combat Commander, Fight On, and all the SoC goodies.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating.  Actually, devastating is too light a word.  Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25
Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul;
Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind;
Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire;
The MECH warrior reaches perfection.

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3 months ago  ::  Mar 06, 2013 - 7:37AM #5
svendj
Date Joined: Apr 14, 2010
Posts: 2,049
Warlock is cool, also with the dominates, but I like Charm Beast more than Touch of Command because you have far more control over who you get to dominate. And I want Bard to be a major part of the build, so no Warlord this time. 

I've rebuilt it as a Sentinel hybrid, and it actually works pretty well! Frees up 2 feats (still need one of the three for Hybrid Talent),  so I can at least take Improved Defenses. And Magic Stones and Wall of Thorns are pretty yummy powers for a leader|controller to have. 

AC is even crappier than before (Hide instead of Chain), but that just means I've got to stay out of melee. And now that I have room for MC Sorcerer (dagger as implement), I can at least carry a shield.

EDIT: and a Bear Companion for a +2 to all defenses also helps a lot.
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3 months ago  ::  Mar 06, 2013 - 8:42AM #6
Mommy_was_an_Orc
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Posts: 4,977
With starting Str/Con of 12, you could retrain into Chain at 11th. Carry a Shielding Dagger + Staff of Sleep & Charm. Both Common Items.
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3 months ago  ::  Mar 06, 2013 - 9:39AM #7
zelink551
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2011
Posts: 3,349
Bard|Sentinel? My head hurts. 
The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook

The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed

The Bookish Barbarian

Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different

That's right. Rules According to Zelink!

Self Reference Links Show

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28317541/Barfcheeze_help?pg=1

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3 months ago  ::  Mar 06, 2013 - 10:16AM #8
Mommy_was_an_Orc
Date Joined: Apr 25, 2002
Posts: 4,977
Given the build is about getting 2 dominates by 13th and utilizing Wisdom and Charisma, that does tend to limit the options. And in that context, Sentinel is cheaper than the other options.

A way around it might be to pick up Combat Virtuoso and therefore not need significant Wisdom for Charm Beast. But that's a lot of feats to spend - mc, novice, acolyte, combat virtuoso by 13th
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3 months ago  ::  Mar 06, 2013 - 10:18AM #9
zelink551
Date Joined: Feb 26, 2011
Posts: 3,349
Yeah, but it doesn't destroy your entire build.
The Elemental Man (or Woman): A Genasi Handbook

The Warlord, Or How to Wield a Barbarian One-Handed

The Bookish Barbarian

Fardiz: RAI is fairly clear, but RAZ is different

That's right. Rules According to Zelink!

Self Reference Links Show

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/28317541/Barfcheeze_help?pg=1

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3 months ago  ::  Mar 06, 2013 - 10:27AM #10
Zathris
Date Joined: Nov 6, 2009
Posts: 4,218
I think we all know the right answer here is Hybrid Vampire.
"Invokers are probably better round after round but Wizard dailies are devastating.  Actually, devastating is too light a word.  Wizard daily powers are soul crushing, encounter ending, havoc causing pieces of awesome." -AirPower25
Sear the Flesh, Purify the Soul;
Harden the Heart, and Improve the Mind;
Born of Blood, but Forged by Fire;
The MECH warrior reaches perfection.

My Guides Show
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