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3 months ago  ::  Feb 26, 2013 - 4:25PM #1
Ghosts
Date Joined: Nov 30, 2012
Posts: 7
Alright, so my friends and I started with the essentials starter kit, and now have the rules copendium, the dungeon master book, the monster vault, and heroes of the fallen land, but after reading through all of them I still have a lot of confusion.

First of all, Mages: My friend is playing a mage and he has this thing where he tries to become overpowered oppose to balanced, so I just want to make sure his interpretation of the rules are correct, do staffs count as quarterstaffs? With the following attack and damage stats? So a mage with the feat to use intellect instead of strength for attack roles has a weapon that has an attack bonus of 10 and damage of 1d8+3, kind of weak but still a lot stronger than I believe a mage should be meleeing...

Further, Fighters: We've had a sort of loose interpretation of the rules as to classes because we don't want to stick to the specific classes, so this question might be sort of hard to answer, but I was creating a fighter sub-class with proficiency in Plate armor, but not shields. (So inbetween a slayer and a knight.) But while creating this class, I noticed the bonus for plate armor was +8, but the bonus for hide armor was +3, but with hide armor you still retain a bonus to AC from dexterity, so with a dexterity of 20 (starting at 18 and a racial modifier of +2), which my character has, that results in a modifier of +5 and a total AC bonus of +8 as well, but the hide armor also allows the user to retain his speed so same AC bonus but no speed penalty... So why bother with anything higher than hide?

Finally, Longsword versus Greatsword: Both have an attack bonus of +3, and the long sword does 1d8 and the greatsword does 1d10, but the greatsword is 2 handed and the longsword is versatile so you get a +1 bonus using it 2 handed, which results in a roll of 1-9 versus the greatsword which is 0-9 so why bother with a greatsword?

P.S. I forgot some of the questions I originally had typing this, there are loads, but I'll add to this thread as they appear.

Edit 1: Oh right, d10's, the starter box comes with a d10 numbered 1-10 but the player handbook has a picture of one numbered 0-9, and when I bought more dice sets they came numbered 0-9, so we've been playing using 0-9 as the correct numbering but my query of longsword versus greatsword seems to imply otherwise.
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 26, 2013 - 4:42PM #2
bengilmer
Date Joined: Feb 10, 2011
Posts: 189
All of these things seem right, I'll give you a bit of a breakdown.

The wizard: A staff implement can indeed be used as a quarterstaff. If he takes the feat to use Int instead of Str for his melee basic attack, he can add his full intelligence modifier to the attack roll and half of his intelligence modifier to damage.

 As for the fighter question, while I can't help with your homebrewed class, I can tell you that yes, if you have a high Dexterity or Intellect modifier, that hide can be better than plate, BUT many classes do not have a high Dex or Int, so Plate would be better for them.

Lonsword vs. Greatsword. Yeah, the greatsword is underwhelming versus using a longsword two handed. It gets even worse when compared to the Bastard Sword, which isn't in the Essentials books, but it's better than both of them.

d10s: A d10 numbered 1-10 is correct. a d10 numbered 1-0 is the same. 0 doesn't mean 0, it means 10. The reason that some d10s have a 0 is when rolling for percentages, 2d10, you take the tens column from one die, and the ones column from the other. 
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 26, 2013 - 5:04PM #3
Ghosts
Date Joined: Nov 30, 2012
Posts: 7
Thanks for all your quick answers.

Ah right, I meant to ask about bastard swords as well, I forget where but I read somewhere that bastard swords can be used one handed with the correct strength and training? So I've been using one one-handed on my old fighter class having assumed the pre-requisite was less than 20, is this accurate? With a +3 attack bonus and 1d10?
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 26, 2013 - 5:13PM #4
mattador666
Date Joined: Oct 11, 2010
Posts: 531
The only pre-req for using a Bastard Sword is the feat Bastard Sword Proficiency.

Also, if you've just started playing I would seriously advise against homebrewing/houseruling until you gain a better understanding of the system.

And your Mage buddy needs to forget melee training and take Staff Expertise. 
Wizards of the Coast can suck it.
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 26, 2013 - 6:29PM #5
Ghosts
Date Joined: Nov 30, 2012
Posts: 7
But aren't bastard swords by default 2 handed unless you have strength training?

Also, I know that it's highly not recommended, but originally we started with just the starter book (which is severly limited), and when we started building our own dungeons we found play severely lacking, from there we started playing with a 1st edition playerbook and a 3.5th edition DM book (due to miscommunications on my christmas list) and no monstervault, so needless to say we entered this game with a need to be creative, but so far everything have been more balanced than my experience with the starter kit, so it seems to be working.

Yeah he ended up with that too.

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3 months ago  ::  Feb 26, 2013 - 9:13PM #6
Salla
Date Joined: Apr 3, 2003
Posts: 23,524

Feb 26, 2013 -- 6:29PM, Ghosts wrote:

But aren't bastard swords by default 2 handed unless you have strength training?




No.  Bastard Swords are versatile weapons, meaning you can use them one-handed normally, or two-handed and gain a +1 bonus to damage.

Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 27, 2013 - 12:32AM #7
Pashalik_Mons
Date Joined: May 17, 2009
Posts: 7,095
Keep in mind that each edition of D&D is a separate game, they don't just mix and match with each other.  If you vaguely remember a rule from somewhere, it's best to check where it was from.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven.  You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner


4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 28, 2013 - 5:13AM #8
babcock3030
Date Joined: Jan 9, 2012
Posts: 274
You should use a rapier instead of a longsword or a bastard sword or whatever. If your character has the DEX, you get more out of them than heavy blades. Also, high DEX means you should wear hide armor. If you want to wear heavy armor, IMO, scale is better than plate. There are plenty of ways to mitigate the +1 that plate gives you.

I agree with the above posters: you don't want to mix'n match or houserule without total system mastery. The Essentials books are cheap and should be easy to find, so get them (or step up to the non-essentials books).
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 28, 2013 - 11:47AM #9
Neutronium_Dragon
Date Joined: Aug 11, 2006
Posts: 5,778
One caveat to the longsword/greatsword issue: using the longsword in two hands still leaves you with a [W] of d8, not d8+1. This matters because many powers involve multiple [W], so with a power like Brute Strike, a longsword wielder would get 3d8 + 1, not 3d8 + 3, to the greatsword wielder's 3d10. This difference becomes more pronounced at higher levels, when at-wills are usually doing 2[W] and encounter and daily powers are doing anywhere from 3[W] to 7[W].

  Edit: Oh, another thing: the longsword won't qualify for something like the Slayer's heavy blade features because those specifically require a two-handed weapon, not just a weapon wielded in two hands.

  --

  As for the mage using a staff: +10 vs AC for 1d8 + 3 damage sounds like the character is higher than 1st level and/or using a magic weapon, since I can't think of any way to get those numbers at 1st level. (+8 vs AC and 1d8 + 2 with a nonmagical staff and also having an Expertise feat.)

  If he's going that route though, he's spending character resources (feats) to be reasonable at something the class normally isn't, which is fine. (Mind you, 4E wizards aren't necessarily expected to be pushovers in close quarters, unlike old-E standards.)

  As for the custom class, I'll also recommend against homebrewing stuff when you're first getting started. If you've got a slayer who wants plate proficiency, he can obtain it with a feat (and it's a reasonable option). If he's Dex-heavy then he may not actually need it, though.
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 28, 2013 - 1:31PM #10
peteincary
Date Joined: Jan 26, 2013
Posts: 65

Feb 26, 2013 -- 5:13PM, mattador666 wrote:

The only pre-req for using a Bastard Sword is the feat Bastard Sword Proficiency.



Actually nothing is a pre-req for using a Bastard Sword.

Anyone can pick one up and start using it. You just don't get the bastard sword's weapon proficiency bonus (+3 to attack rolls) when using that weapon if you are not proficient with it. That bonus is huge, so it would be wise to be proficient with it if you plan to use one regularly.

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