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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 9:26AM
#11
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Rotation has nothing to do with the color of the sky. It has everything to do with the size and composition of the various gases and particles that are in it, along with the source of light.
The real reason Dark Sun's skies are orange is because it's got a dark sun - check the Dark Sun logo on the 2e book, posted above. Such a sun would not have much, if any, blue light, and so it would not have anything to scatter nicely azure.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 9:40AM
#12
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2012
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The real reason Dark Sun's skies are orange is because it's got a dark sun - check the Dark Sun logo on the 2e book, posted above. Such a sun would not have much, if any, blue light, and so it would not have anything to scatter nicely azure.
While your answer is more scientifically correct, I still like my explanation better.
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 9:48AM
#13
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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Rotation has nothing to do with the color of the sky. It has everything to do with the size and composition of the various gases and particles that are in it, along with the source of light.
Rotation has alot to do with the color of the sky. Why is the sky reddish at dawn and dusk? The angle of the sunlight hitting the atmosphere at those times make the red and orange wavelength scatter more. Also due to Mars' rotation the sky at dusk and dawn is more blue, because the Rayleigh effect is more significant at that angle than the dust.
Most important is atmospheric thickness and composition so correct on that.
I always explained it with the distance from Athas and the dust  *
The real reason Dark Sun's skies are orange is because it's got a dark sun - check the Dark Sun logo on the 2e book, posted above. Such a sun would not have much, if any, blue light, and so it would not have anything to scatter nicely azure.
The color of the sun would not matter so much, because all of the EM spectrum would still be given off, so the Blue band of light would still be the same range as our yellow sun.*
*Edited for OCD reasons.
CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production.
D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 10:03AM
#14
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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Rotation has nothing to do with the color of the sky. It has everything to do with the size and composition of the various gases and particles that are in it, along with the source of light.
The real reason Dark Sun's skies are orange is because it's got a dark sun - check the Dark Sun logo on the 2e book, posted above. Such a sun would not have much, if any, blue light, and so it would not have anything to scatter nicely azure.
Rotation has alot to do with the color of the sky. Why is the sky reddish at dawn and dusk? The angle of the sunlight hitting the atmosphere at those times make the red and orange wavelength scatter more. Also due to Mars' rotation the sky at dusk and dawn is more blue, because the Rayleigh effect is more significant at that angle than the dust.
Most important is atmospheric thickness and composition so correct on that.
I always explained it with the dust
Er, okay, yes, rotation can be why the color of the sky changes for your particular location, but it has nothing to do with why the colors are the way they are. If we got tide-locked to the Sun like the Moon is with us, so that one day is one year and the same side always faces the Sun, then for the people in the middle (aside from having a nasty sunburn) they'd see a blue sky, whereas the people at the edges of daylight would see the standard red-orange sunsets as the blue light gets scattered out.
I'm not clear on your comment about Mars's dusk/dawn - regardless of the dust, the Rayleigh scattering would reduce the amount of blue you see at dusk, not increase it. It's solely a path length issue: there is more atmosphere for the light to go through at dusk/dawn, so more of the blue is scattered out so the red gets to you. If the sky is bluer at dusk/dawn on Mars, it isn't because of Rayleigh scattering.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 10:12AM
#15
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Date Joined:
Jun 17, 2010
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The real reason Dark Sun's skies are orange is because it's got a dark sun - check the Dark Sun logo on the 2e book, posted above. Such a sun would not have much, if any, blue light, and so it would not have anything to scatter nicely azure.
The color of the sun would not matter so much, because all of the EM spectrum would still be given off, so the Blue band of light would still be the same range as our yellow sun.*
*Edited for OCD reasons.
Black-body radiation
The temperature of a thing changes the kind of light that it gives off. Not "all of" the EM spectrum is given off - it cuts off once you get to short enough wavelengths. Our sun is hot enough to give off a little bit of UV, whereas a nice fat blue giant gives off much lower wavelengths, in addition to simply more light. When you look at the difference between a red giant, our yellow Sun, and a blue giant, what you're seeing is the change in the spectrum based on temperature.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 10:24AM
#16
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Date Joined:
Aug 18, 2007
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The real reason Dark Sun's skies are orange is because it's got a dark sun - check the Dark Sun logo on the 2e book, posted above. Such a sun would not have much, if any, blue light, and so it would not have anything to scatter nicely azure.
The color of the sun would not matter so much, because all of the EM spectrum would still be given off, so the Blue band of light would still be the same range as our yellow sun.*
*Edited for OCD reasons.
Black-body radiation
The temperature of a thing changes the kind of light that it gives off. Not "all of" the EM spectrum is given off - it cuts off once you get to short enough wavelengths. Our sun is hot enough to give off a little bit of UV, whereas a nice fat blue giant gives off much lower wavelengths, in addition to simply more light. When you look at the difference between a red giant, our yellow Sun, and a blue giant, what you're seeing is the change in the spectrum based on temperature.
Fair enough, I forgot to consider black bodies.
Er, okay, yes, rotation can be why the color of the sky changes for your particular location, but it has nothing to do with why the colors are the way they are. If we got tide-locked to the Sun like the Moon is with us, so that one day is one year and the same side always faces the Sun, then for the people in the middle (aside from having a nasty sunburn) they'd see a blue sky, whereas the people at the edges of daylight would see the standard red-orange sunsets as the blue light gets scattered out.
I'm not clear on your comment about Mars's dusk/dawn - regardless of the dust, the Rayleigh scattering would reduce the amount of blue you see at dusk, not increase it. It's solely a path length issue: there is more atmosphere for the light to go through at dusk/dawn, so more of the blue is scattered out so the red gets to you. If the sky is bluer at dusk/dawn on Mars, it isn't because of Rayleigh scattering.
Well certainly not the Rayleigh effect alone. By all counts the sky on mars would be the shortest of the blue but we don't see that because of the dust. So there could be some interection with the scattered light. I jumped to conclusion with the Rayleigh effect when I heard that in the Curiosity briefing last week that I still think is up on JPL.
Here you go, if this does not mention the blue sky, I think it does, maybe it is one of the ones below it on the page.
www.jpl.nasa.gov/video/index.php?id=1199
CAMRA preserves and protects real ale from the homogenization of modern beer production.
D&D Grognards are the CAMRA of D&D!
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 10:35AM
#17
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Date Joined:
Aug 25, 2007
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OF course there will be an argument. You could say the sky is blue and you would find an argument on these forums. It's not worth the effort of the designers to try to appease those people.
Let's test this theory shall we?
In D&DN, the default color of the sky should be blue across all settings where it would make sense to have a normal, reality-based, sky color. The notable exception to this shall be the Dark Sun's setting of Athas, where the sky should be more depicted as burnt orange in coloration.
Not if Athas has a rotation. Violet blue and green light will always scatter in the thicker atmosphere.
I don't know. Athasian sky always seems to be orangish.
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It could also sugest that athas might be a bigger planet then earth hacing a bigger athmosphere.
sonlight tends to look more red when having to travel trough more atmosphere like it does at runrise and sunset on earth.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 11:13AM
#18
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It could also be (partially) magic. I don't mean that in a dismissive "It's magic! Stop thinking about it!" way. Athas is defined in large party by the fact that arcane magic defiles the environment. Usually we think about that in terms of the effect defiling has on the ground in general and on plant life in particular, but it's reasonable that it might also alter the character of the atmosphere. Because the atmosphere is a gas, the "pollution" would diffuse through it much more rapidly than it would through the ground, more or less uniformly discoloring the atmosphere over time, at least in the regions of Athas that we "see".
Dwarves invented beer so they could toast to their axes. Dwarves invented axes to kill people and take their beer.
"Feel free to claim I said anything you like. How's someone going to call you out on it? Are they going to be all like, 'I know all of the things that Gary said, and that's not one of them?'"
- Gary Gygax
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 11:31AM
#19
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2010
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Speaking of blue, are the nac mac feegle really just bad-ass smurfs in kilts?... 
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3 months ago ::
Feb 25, 2013 - 1:15PM
#20
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Date Joined:
Jan 30, 2012
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Speaking of blue, are the nac mac feegle really just bad-ass smurfs in kilts?
Seeing as how kilts make everything more bad-ass......sure?
You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - The most famous of which is "never get involved in an thread with GM_Champion" - but only slightly less well-known is this: "Never go in against AzureShade when card design is on the line!
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