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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:21AM
#51
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..."window.parent.tinyMCE.get('post_content').onLoad.dispatch();" contenteditable="true" />One of the things I hated about 4E was making them a core race. Because that meant that every campaign world now had to get shoehorned into accepting them.
No, it didn't.
Anybody, playing ANY campaign setting EVER, had EVERY right to say 'no dragonborn', just as they could say 'no humans', 'no elves', 'no dwarves', or any other game element. Just because a game element is in the initial game book outlay (aka 'core') in no way obligates their use.
If you ever felt forced to include anything in your games, then that is a your problem, not the system's.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:22AM
#52
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Not a big dragonborn fan as they were so tacked on and adding them to the game meant forcing them into the Realms and Eberron and other worlds. Glad they never released Ravenloft or Dragonlance so we didn't end up with dragonborn in those worlds.
But dragonmen in general are fun. Dragonborn in 5e would be easily tweaked into draconians via subraces, which do compliment Dragonlance.
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say? Spoiler:
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:24AM
#53
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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I love it.. if there's no default setting and none of this matters, why is it so important to people that they're included?
Seems awfully selfish to impose your wishes as an absolute on everyone else whether they want it or not.
The irony in this statement is overwhelming. No one that wants something IN the game is being selfish, the people that want stuff OUT of the game are being selfish. Nothing about the dragonborn being in the PHB FORCES you not to use them. Them not being in the game FORCES me NOT to use them.
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:24AM
#54
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I love it.. if there's no default setting and none of this matters, why is it so important to people that they're included?
Seems awfully selfish to impose your wishes as an absolute on everyone else whether they want it or not.
Wow, congratulations, you have it completely backwards. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. It truly boggles me.
How is 'include everything and let the individual tables decide what they use' selfish, compared to 'we don't want it in the game EVER'? The former case lets everybody win; if you like D-born, they're in, and if you don't, they're out. In the latter case, only the haters win because D-born are out.
It's the 'I don't like it, so it shouldn't be in the game at all' crowd who are the selfish ones.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:25AM
#55
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One of the things I hated about 4E was making them a core race. Because that meant that every campaign world now had to get shoehorned into accepting them.
That's actually not true. No one was under any obligation to allow the existence of Dragonborn in 4e. The game assumed that you would, and made accommodations so that you didn't have to house-rule in their existence in the campaign worlds, but that's very different from requiring them to be present.
That's why I like the idea of keeping the default core races very small.
Core doesn't mean that. No one race is core. Rather, it is the mechanic of choosing a race during character creation that is core. And just because something is in the PHB doesn't mean that anyone has to use it or allow it.
Why Mechanics-Alignment Integration is Bad
Show
so why even play a fighter if you can play the paladin the exact same way behaviorally and get added power to boot. "Paladin" is about accepting better game-enhancing mechanics at the price of more rigid in game behavior.
Really? So it goes something like this?
Fighter: "I want to be a paladin."
NPC: "Really?"
Fighter: "Yes."
NPC: "Very well." Starts reading from a holy book while still in-character "Do you accept having to choose and stick to the lawful good alignment, eventhough neither of us actually knows that it exists or what it is?"
Fighter: "I do."
NPC: "Do you reject good game balance because you accidentally rolled a high Charisma?"
Fighter: "What?"
NPC: "I don't know what it means either."
Fighter: "Oh. Umm, ok I do."
NPC: "In the name of all that is metagamey and broken, accept these better game enhancing mechanics."
Fighter: "These what?"
NPC: "Just get out there and try to fulfill a million different people's notion of good while not violating and part of any of them."
So the system is designed such that every single hit needs to be described to avoid confusion? Here's a scenario. The players are nudists, everybody in the world are nudists, it's not weird, it's totally normal in this land. They are naked and they fight drakes taking damage throughout, but healing up with surges. Later they meet the guy who raised the drakes.
Part 1: I didn't describe any of the hits. What does he see?
Part 2: Lets say I described the drakes as biting the players, yet they healed up. What does he see?
D20 Modern Toon PC Race.
Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:28AM
#56
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Date Joined:
Mar 29, 2012
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Not a big dragonborn fan as they were so tacked on and adding them to the game meant forcing them into the Realms and Eberron and other worlds. Glad they never released Ravenloft or Dragonlance so we didn't end up with dragonborn in those worlds.
But dragonmen in general are fun. Dragonborn in 5e would be easily tweaked into draconians via subraces, which do compliment Dragonlance.
Dragonborn appeared in Ravenloft Board Game. Not sure if that counts. 
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:28AM
#57
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Date Joined:
Jun 21, 2012
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Not a big dragonborn fan as they were so tacked on and adding them to the game meant forcing them into the Realms and Eberron and other worlds. Glad they never released Ravenloft or Dragonlance so we didn't end up with dragonborn in those worlds.
But dragonmen in general are fun. Dragonborn in 5e would be easily tweaked into draconians via subraces, which do compliment Dragonlance.
ahhh now I see. They're in the PHB so the company then integrates them into all their official settings.
Sounds to me like the company made a horrible mistake and tried to integrate all their stuff into official settings instead of growing a pair and just including them in things where they made sense and leaving them out otherwise. You can't really blame dragonborn for that (though I hated them since I read about it in Races of the Dragon in 3.5) and I agree, dragon-people are cool.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:29AM
#58
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No, they made the right call and let the individual tables decide. You don't like Dragonborn in your FR? *poof* They aren't there. This is not difficult or complicated.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:31AM
#59
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Date Joined:
Oct 25, 2010
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That's actually not true. No one was under any obligation to allow the existence of Dragonborn in 4e. The game assumed that you would, and made accommodations so that you didn't have to house-rule in their existence in the campaign worlds, but that's very different from requiring them to be present.
Anything that doesn't have a caveat "get your DM's permission before picking this race" is effectively being shoehorned into the world, because it's being assumed unless you specifically ban it.
Monster races should be something the DM has to allow, not something he specifically has to ban. I shouldn't have to tell people they can't play a thri-kreen in non-Dark Sun, that should be assumed unless otherwise stated.
Core doesn't mean that. No one race is core. Rather, it is the mechanic of choosing a race during character creation that is core. And just because something is in the PHB doesn't mean that anyone has to use it or allow it.
If a race isn't in an optional module and/or dosn't require DM permission to play, then it's considered core.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 24, 2013 - 9:33AM
#60
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Not a big dragonborn fan as they were so tacked on and adding them to the game meant forcing them into the Realms and Eberron and other worlds. Glad they never released Ravenloft or Dragonlance so we didn't end up with dragonborn in those worlds.
But dragonmen in general are fun. Dragonborn in 5e would be easily tweaked into draconians via subraces, which do compliment Dragonlance.
Dragonborn appeared in Ravenloft Board Game. Not sure if that counts.
Ouch. Too soon man, too soon.
Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?Spoiler:
Show
My Webcomic
Updated Tuesday and Thursday
Read my blog on the WotC Community Site (updated irregularly to avoid spamming the "Featured Blogger" list).
You can follow me on Twitter: "@DnDJester"
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