|
3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 2:46PM
#1
|
Date Joined:
May 24, 2010
|
I'm looking for a bit of help with an upcoming session in my Dark Sun campaign I will be running. The PCs, having (for the most part save one poor bastard who got out with 4 health and no healing surges) escaped the water dungeon I designed for them, are now proceeding to loot a lost and abandoned fortress in the Sea of Silt. I've decided that what makes this next dungeon particularly special are two things: One, it is constantly flooding and draining silt from different sections of the dungeon, and two, the whole thing is infested by a massive tentacled horror
While I've already figured out the silt bit, I'm having a bit more trouble with the horror. The beast is huge, and has grown throughout the entire fortress, essentially, the encounters they fight will be with ancillary tentacles and maws of the beast. The main core of the beast lurks at the heart of the facility, and consists of a massive maw surrounded by many claws and feeding tentacles.
My problems here are twofold:
A. This dungeon is concepted around the idea of a smash-and-grab. This dungeon is filled with metal weapons (exceedingly rare and valuable in athas), and the more danger the PCs are willing to risk confronting the horror, the more loot they can obtain. However, a few PCs in my party (two, to be specific) are loaded with tons of teleports. How do I best prevent this from being too easy? I don't want to punish them for their choice of character creation, but I don't want them to make it too easy by just teleporting in, grabbing the loot, and teleporting out. For example, take the final fight with the core. I want to tempt them into getting close in it's range (an exceedingly dangerous prospect) with particularly good loot. What's a good way to keep that dangerous?
B. The confrontation with the core of the monster. The central beast is big enough to be part of the scenery, and is immune to traditional damage. I'm looking for some ideas that could make this fight interesting and make the scenery important. The creature itself is a massivly overgrown inhabitant of the Sea of Silt, and is intertwined with the old stone fortress. I've thought of the classic idea of "collapse the room on it", but I'd really love input and ideas, because the more unique and dramatic this encounter is, the better, more fun, and memorable it will be.
"Contemplation is the womb of treachery."
-Imperial Thought for the Day
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 2:58PM
#2
|
Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
|
I recommend asking your players how they think it would be cool for their teleports to be limited in effectiveness. Not only will it give you a source for ideas, but there's more of a chance that the players will not feel that their choices are not being punished.
Be careful about wanting stuff, as a DM, such as wanting a specific scene.
What is the nature of the creature? Is it mindless and ravenous, or does it have intelligence and a goal? Perhaps it wants to die. Perhaps it wants to depart. Perhaps it wants to die because it is a native of the Outer Planes and longs to teleport away, but is trapped because Athas is disconnected from the planes. (Such a nature might tie in to why teleportation is not as advantageous as usual in this area.) If it's intelligent, it can bargain with the players to achieve its goal. Perhaps there's a substance that will poison it, which kills it or lets it sleep, or drives away its mind. Once they do what it wants, they've won, but that could bring its own complications.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 3:11PM
#3
|
Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
|
well let's see, teleportation can be problematic if PC's can't see where they are going (some teleportation powers don't require line of sight). So you could make it so that the PC's simply can't see where they are teleporting in certain areas and force them to move normally towards the treasures. To do this you can use effects that block line of sight, blocking terrain or since the tentacle creature is so massive you could just use it's tentacles to block line of sight.
Another option to do this would be to cause certain aspects of the tentacle boss to have an anti teleportation aura. You described having tentacles and maws, maybe you can diversify a little more and make it so that there's small tentacles, bigger ones (like an octopus has different kinds for different purposes), then different kinds of mouths (some favor ranged attacks, some melee, some have weird abilities like stopping teleportation around themselves, etc)
Problem B is interesting too. You can have the players go after key elements in the room to make large blocks of stone fall onto the creature which would harm it. You can have the players gain a way to harm the creature during the travel to the main core room (so basically the more risks they take during the travel to it, the more they find these special weapons and the easier the last fight becomes), you could have the creature swallow the PC's whole and have them claw and cut their way out of it. Think Gears of War when they get swallowed by the city sinker monster. It might be cooler to have them go through the creature trying to figure out where it's vital organs are and kill it from the inside. It would also allow you sparse loot inside the creature which makes sense since it's been devouring the innards of the structure for so long.
Once the creature is defeated, you can then have a cool get the hell out of dodge before the place caves in on us chase scene or something with hazards.
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 3:14PM
#4
|
Date Joined:
May 24, 2010
|
@Centauri
As far as wanting stuff goes, I think this came up in my last thread as well: I source my players for these ideas. We've been having a ton of fun with this campaign, and this is part of the reason for it. It was one of them that actually suggested the dungeon based around a massive creature. The other players like the idea as well, and another suggested the massive central fight. However, past that, they leave it up to me to provide implementation. I'm here to source some help with this implementation. As one player told me after saying a central massive encounter would be awesome: "Don't tell me any more/ask me any more, I want to be surprised". As for the idea of risk vs reward, I'm not tied to any particular implementation of this. I think it's fairly reasonable that the PCs will be able to earn more if they're willing to put themselves in more danger.
The creature itself is mindless and ravenous. It's cunning in the way a predator can be. While the concept of it being suicidal and intellegent is cool, thats an idea I've actually used before. The water dungeon actually had them bargaining with a very powerful elemental for it's release, so I'm reluctant to use this idea two sessions in a row.
"Contemplation is the womb of treachery."
-Imperial Thought for the Day
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 3:17PM
#5
|
Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
|
@Centauri
As far as wanting stuff goes, I think this came up in my last thread as well: I source my players for these ideas. We've been having a ton of fun with this campaign, and this is part of the reason for it. It was one of them that actually suggested the dungeon based around a massive creature. The other players like the idea as well, and another suggested the massive central fight. However, past that, they leave it up to me to provide implementation. I'm here to source some help with this implementation. As one player told me after saying a central massive encounter would be awesome: "Don't tell me any more/ask me any more, I want to be surprised". As for the idea of risk vs reward, I'm not tied to any particular implementation of this. I think it's fairly reasonable that the PCs will be able to earn more if they're willing to put themselves in more danger.
The creature itself is mindless and ravenous. It's cunning in the way a predator can be. While the concept of it being suicidal and intellegent is cool, thats an idea I've actually used before. The water dungeon actually had them bargaining with a very powerful elemental for it's release, so I'm reluctant to use this idea two sessions in a row.
Don't worry about it. Some forum members always state the same solution to every problem that is posted on the boards. It's not for everyone and if it's not (as you've clearly stated) then just ignore it and move to another suggestion. 
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 3:26PM
#6
|
Date Joined:
May 24, 2010
|
@Noctaem
I actually didn't even think about the LoS issue. I'll definitely bring it in here and there. As far as the tentacle idea, I actually really like the idea of the tentacles interfering with teleportation. Maybe not something so direct as Tentacle X stops teleportation, but perhaps something along the lines of many smaller tentacles that latch onto anything that teleport in and and act as a power drain or poison the character, leaving them at a severe disadvantage for teleporting back out, or at a disadvantage if they make it out again.
I've never actually run a fight from the inside of a monster before either. That could definitely be cool as well. Perhaps the inside itself is filled with parasitory organs and stuff that are dangers of their own. Whack around enough and it vomits the swallowed player out in a spray of vomit and ichor, and part of the room collapses with it's spasms. Perhaps put in a couple of different such "collapsing" or damaging events, and when they hit enough of them (lets say collapsing a pillar, damaging it from the inside, ect), the beast is defeated and terminal structural failure commences.
"Contemplation is the womb of treachery."
-Imperial Thought for the Day
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 3:35PM
#7
|
Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
|
As far as wanting stuff goes, I think this came up in my last thread as well: I source my players for these ideas. We've been having a ton of fun with this campaign, and this is part of the reason for it.
I see. I don't keep close track of who says what. I'm glad to hear it's an approach that's working well for you. I'll continue to suggest it to others.
It was one of them that actually suggested the dungeon based around a massive creature. The other players like the idea as well, and another suggested the massive central fight. However, past that, they leave it up to me to provide implementation. I'm here to source some help with this implementation. As one player told me after saying a central massive encounter would be awesome: "Don't tell me any more/ask me any more, I want to be surprised".
That's not a position I'd care to accept, as one person's idea of a cool surprise is not likely to be the same as someone elses, especially when it involves disincentives or nullifications of certain powers. And that's when the two people know each other. We don't know anything about your players.
Still, it should be possible to tweak things based on their passive input, even while the adventure is underway.
As for the idea of risk vs reward, I'm not tied to any particular implementation of this. I think it's fairly reasonable that the PCs will be able to earn more if they're willing to put themselves in more danger.
It's reasonable in the sense that it fits the theme of adventure stories, but it's difficult to arrange in real life or in games that have specific rules. If the players think that the goal is to minimize risk while maximizing reward, they might be able to figure out a way to do that, within the rules. If you hadn't thought of their teleportation powers up-front, they would have strolled right through this dungeon, sounds like. So, what else have you not thought of.
This is why it's good to bring players in even on things the DM thinks are "reasonable." If the players agree that their reward should be proportional to their risk, rather than their cleverness, then they will feel done right by when their use of their teleportation powers doesn't net them much advantage.
The creature itself is mindless and ravenous. It's cunning in the way a predator can be. While the concept of it being suicidal and intellegent is cool, thats an idea I've actually used before. The water dungeon actually had them bargaining with a very powerful elemental for it's release, so I'm reluctant to use this idea two sessions in a row.
Fair enough. That doesn't leave you many options then.
Perhaps it's like a xorn, a lithovore. The way you've described it makes it sound like a xorn already. It's trapped in this area and has grown too massive to escape and find the veins of metal and gems it needs to eat in order to enter the next phase of its life cycle. Make the scene about freeing the creature, instead of killing it. Maybe they need to lead it once its been freed, by using their metal weapons as treats.
Maybe the metal weapons are terrifying the thing or causing it to have a reaction. They help it by removing the weapons, but doing so temporarily makes things worse for it, like surgery. Also, if the creature has grown around the metal items, the PCs wouldn't be able to simply teleport in and out.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 3:46PM
#8
|
Date Joined:
Mar 28, 2010
|
@Noctaem
I actually didn't even think about the LoS issue. I'll definitely bring it in here and there. As far as the tentacle idea, I actually really like the idea of the tentacles interfering with teleportation. Maybe not something so direct as Tentacle X stops teleportation, but perhaps something along the lines of many smaller tentacles that latch onto anything that teleport in and and act as a power drain or poison the character, leaving them at a severe disadvantage for teleporting back out, or at a disadvantage if they make it out again.
I've never actually run a fight from the inside of a monster before either. That could definitely be cool as well. Perhaps the inside itself is filled with parasitory organs and stuff that are dangers of their own. Whack around enough and it vomits the swallowed player out in a spray of vomit and ichor, and part of the room collapses with it's spasms. Perhaps put in a couple of different such "collapsing" or damaging events, and when they hit enough of them (lets say collapsing a pillar, damaging it from the inside, ect), the beast is defeated and terminal structural failure commences.
The reason for tentacle x stopping or even just slowing teleportation (as in teleport 4 becomes 2 or something like that, like the slow condition) is because then it's not punishing to the player because the party could just focus down that specific tentacle and then teleporting is ok again. The goal is not to screw over the player for the duration of the encounter, but make it a tactical benefit to focus fire. You could even give the monster an immediate interrupt when it sees a creature teleport to give it a save ends teleportation slow or something. Up to you of course.
I was thinking that because you describe the creature as having grown through the entire structure that you could literally have a dungeon within a dungeon. Having them be inside the creature and cut their way out. Up to you though
"Non nobis Domine Sed nomini tuo da gloriam" "I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 4:16PM
#9
|
Date Joined:
May 24, 2010
|
@Centauri
It can be a difficult position. On the bright side, I know my players exceedingly well and I've known them for many years, so it's not hard for me to keep out or alter things they'd find unfun or frustrating. I like the idea of it reacting in particular to the metal weapons, and I'll work that in. I'm also rather fond of the idea of it growing over the items. It doesn't negate their teleportation, but it does stop them from whisking everything off. My players are definite experts at breaking scenarios and maximizing rewards, so I'm sure they'll figure out some way to foil my dastardly plans, but that's part of the fun!
@Noctaem
Duly noted. I do rather like the idea of an interrupt. My only reluctance with having it the creature be a dungeon inside a dungeon based off them getting swallowed is that I'd have to railroad them all into the monster some how. It's not bad if it can happen to a few characters in a fight, but if it's early on and a few escape then I've split the party. I could run it like the movie Aliens though. As they get closer to the center of the beast, the surroundings become coated in organics. Keeps the theme without forcing a specific event on them, and certain passageways could connect to the interior of the beast.
"Contemplation is the womb of treachery."
-Imperial Thought for the Day
|
|
|
|
3 months ago ::
Feb 22, 2013 - 11:06PM
#10
|
Date Joined:
Jul 21, 2004
|
@Centauri
It can be a difficult position. On the bright side, I know my players exceedingly well and I've known them for many years, so it's not hard for me to keep out or alter things they'd find unfun or frustrating. I like the idea of it reacting in particular to the metal weapons, and I'll work that in. I'm also rather fond of the idea of it growing over the items. It doesn't negate their teleportation, but it does stop them from whisking everything off.
Ok, I hope you settle on something fun.
My players are definite experts at breaking scenarios and maximizing rewards, so I'm sure they'll figure out some way to foil my dastardly plans, but that's part of the fun!
I've never understood why that's part of the fun, unless "dastardly" is meant in jest.
[N]o difference is less easily overcome than the difference of opinion about semi-abstract questions. - L. Tolstoy
|
|
|
