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Mar 4, 2013 -- 1:01PM, Andarious-Rosethorn wrote:

How's the ol' reflex save? Got shield spell running? There's always a weak point... worst case scenerio a hard core grappler and a buddy with antimagic field.

Antimagic field works wonders. But that's about the only thing we found that works really well on this guy.
Reflex save, I don't know, it was 21 three levels ago and he does have a ring of evasion.

He can be grappled. We just fought a Gargantuan Fiendish Red Dragon that could grapple this character in our last session. Chewed on him for a while, discovered that was futile, gave up and started attacking other party members (mainly me as I have a more reasonable 30ish AC). In the end the dragon got away before we killed it, as it was the 5th encounter of the day, we were running a bit low on resources, had a few megative levels and had our highest damage dealing party member missing (the charger build).

Things like Blasphemy also work as they're based of HD, we fought a Pit Fiend earlier during the day and it was reasonably effective.

The Sorcerer we fought also had an effective Energy Drain. We got 8 and 6 negative levels before we killed her.

So things that allow no save, antimagic, and stuff that depends on HD does work. Grapple works if we're low on resources and have negative levels, I'm not sure it would have worked otherwise and even now it was largely ineffective.

Mar 4, 2013 -- 6:49AM, RogerWilco wrote:

Mar 3, 2013 -- 6:58PM, Matyr wrote:

I feel like this is an Ode entitled "Why I play 4e".

Lol. Good point.

- Yes I did Laugh Out Loud.

4 PCs who know squat about the "wishlist", or tactics, and pick all feats with skills material.
1 PC who googles "mellored" ahead of time, and presents said build, whistling in pure sheepish cherubic innocence.

Same result as this 3.5ish stuff.

Mar 5, 2013 -- 3:16PM, Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe wrote:

Menhir missed the point with his 'simple' calculation.
Here's how you counter that awesome AC...

So, after you've gotten petty revenge by killing another player's character, how do you go about actually fixing anything?

Mar 5, 2013 -- 6:33PM, Pashalik_Mons wrote:

Mar 5, 2013 -- 3:16PM, Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe wrote:

Menhir missed the point with his 'simple' calculation.
Here's how you counter that awesome AC...

So, after you've gotten petty revenge by killing another player's character, how do you go about actually fixing anything?

Sorry so wordy....
To pashalik mons...
I just figured before long the minmaxer will need to see if his character is good enough to kill the party single-handedly if only because he has such disdain for them. The party needs to think outside the box rather than out-numbers him. He has weaknesses, he just doesn't see them. But his point in your description is a good AC. "Hey guard, I have a good AC... open the gate!".

To the OP:
There are three problems:
1 It gets almost impossible for the DM to make something that's a challenge.
2Things that challenge de min/maxxer are almost sure to kill the rest of the party.
3There is somewhat of an arms race by the other players to try and stay relevant.

1. The DM needs to think outside the box. He needs to be careful with the min-maxer to not only stay within the rules, but also resist the temptation to throw down a hyper-epic smackdowner. It's good to challenge the min-maxer, not to have him die of peanut allergies, but it's possible for a single low level monster to present a challenge to even the most epic level character if you play that monster intelligently. But just playing the DM card and throwing a +99 vorpal axe at his head is a challenge the character has no chance of winning. It would be unfair to do things that way. Clever enemies are the exception. As long as the player gets a chance to act, or if an enemy's action are a result of the player's actions/inactions, then all's fair game (though some would disagree with me here).

2. It's not about the AC, I take it, but I noticed you didn't mention much about his character's personality. The DM needs to think outside the box. Plus 98,324 to hit, 40,897,345 damage and and AC of 9,280,347 won't get you invited to the Royal Wedding. Don't get too enamored with the munchkinized number. It's meant to throw the DM off. A natural 20 still hits. The enemy just has a poor chance to get a critical. Multiple opponents have a better chance of rolling that natural 20 and the other players get a better chance of getting at least SOME action that way.


3. That's odd. Munchkins in my experience are never relevant. They are easily the most forgettable characters. Remember that character with the good AC? The answer is either "no" or "which one"? Remember the one who began nearly every sentence with "According to the prophets of B'shamatep..."? Already more interesting... even if that's all we ever know about him/her.
---
OP: Has anyone ever come up with a houserule that somehow adjusts difficulty on a per player basis, or something like that? --- - I don't think a houserule is necessary, per se... but I don't think it unfair that the characters who actually were challenged and overcame that challenge get more experience than the player who bought a rod of metamagic extend. I do houserule that if you can buy it in the market, it's no longer magic. You might try that one, though... I recommend it heartily. One house rule I use... 'the gods are laughing'. Once a character becomes dull... he gets written out of the script, maybe not for good, but at least until the DM or player can think of some way to make him less boring to the audience.

The DM should try some one-on-one challenges. They can be brief challenges for individual players that focus on their distinct talents, without making comparisons to this player's character.

I must say, though... it's not the first time I've heard of this Thrym or whatever kind of dog that is with the plus 30 natural armor. It sounds like a canine terrasque. Is that natural armor a typo, an ill-planned homebrew monster or is it a creature with the brain of a cave cricket? If I were DM, I don't think it be out of the ordinary to rule that the character must have at least seen a Thrym up close to be able to become one... since it's not a standard, farasiknow, but that's a side issue.

Mar 7, 2013 -- 12:27PM, Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe wrote:

Laugh at the min-maxer for thinking himself clever for being able to add. If the DM requires him to make a new character, the level difference should help for a while.



* For the record, it wasn't my intention to imply the players get into a character-killing war... not always fun for anyone involved (unless you love watching a comeuppance), although my post certainly sounds that way. My experience with min-maxers has been that they tend to be looking for an in-party fight. So I had some bias.

So, once you're done stirring up some table drama, you'll stir up some more table drama.  I'm still waiting for the part where anything other than a dearth of table drama gets fixed.