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Switch to Forum Live View 30 Habits of Highly Unsuccessful DMs
3 months ago  ::  Feb 21, 2013 - 7:22AM #51
Baalbamoth
Date Joined: Jan 17, 2012
Posts: 479
Guyviroth- I love alignments, my problem was more with DM's that want to tell you "an elf wouldent act that way, a rogue would be more devious, if your Chaotic Good your character would never sign a contract." etc its the extreme side of that not like your describing as a helpful reminder. Also every single one of these things I have expirenced. I did see two guys actually get into a fist fight at a game because one thought the other was trying to intimidate him into a DM ruleling. gamazing.

RE: parent DM's, I agree its more of a pre-planning issue, I do have respect for people who have kids and want to game, however, if I was going to bottom line this In a best case scenario I would say anything that greatly distracts from a game should be removed from where the game is going on (regardless of if this is kids, an obsessive and time jealous boyfriend/girlfriend, pets, etc.)

all of that stemmed from a time I went to a game, dad had three young kids, two dogs, three cats, wife took off right when we got there. My best friend had one leg and couldent ballence well, they brought the old rusty chair in from outside for him, a cat tired from being chased hid under the chair, about an hour into the game (after the barbeque) my friend tilts slightly in the chair, then gets this "omg wtf is happening" look on his face for a second or two, before he and the chair collapses on the cat.

The cat runs into the bedroom under the bed and starts making a low growling noise, kids are screaming and crying, dogs are freaking out, my buddy pulled half the table onto himself (including barbeque) when he fell and was terribly embarassed. Everyone has to run into the bedroom to try and get the cat from under the bed and see if it needs the pet ER... I mean my god... what a gaming session. Its still one of the most funny gaming expirences I remember but still its memorable because of how horrible it was. so if I seem harsh... understand there was good reason.

BoredDM- EXACTAMUNDO! I had many of these habbits long ago, happily I can say I've unlearned most of them... its kind of like learning to target shoot. You develop bad habbits, and have to unlearn them to shoot better, and the only way to do that is more and more shootin. 

Madfox- thats why I shut off the wi-fi, lol jk, but I disagree that having the tech at the table improves the game, if something needs to be looked up online its better for me to go fiat rather than put the game on hold while people search and SRD, if something isnt written down on a character sheet I dont see how having it on the tablet is an improvement or faster than turning a page. na, I prefer luddite gamers. 

Kishri- of course your right it could be a case by case basis where some guys have no trobule but others are addicted to angry birds or whatever but then you have the problem of singling out one guy or playing "I told you NO!" and "but he's doing it too!" I'd much much rather have a standing rule.
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 21, 2013 - 2:57PM #52
Baudelaire
Date Joined: May 25, 2009
Posts: 58

Feb 20, 2013 -- 1:55AM, Baalbamoth wrote:


31) Chaos Rules! This DM is the king of random, random die roles, random rule applications, and random vengeance. You can’t depend on anything with this guy, pretty much all role-playing, all resolutions break down into what you rolled on a d20, and your actual actions mean nothing. (For Baudelaire)




Thank you for the reference. I've been to DMs which largely rely on dice to determine history outcomes, but in this case it was clear that all dice rolling were irrelevant. We were just doing it for the sake of it, as if DM had a TOC for looking at dice rolling or the sound of them falling flat to show the result... this could be so good or so bad, but it was unrelated to the resolution of the escene. It was clear it was up to what DM wants to happen next.

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3 months ago  ::  Feb 22, 2013 - 6:11AM #53
Baalbamoth
Date Joined: Jan 17, 2012
Posts: 479
so back to that side question or maybe I should make a different thread... how can a well designed game reduce or eliminate bad DMing expirences, I've heard a well designed will be more easy to use so that DM's who have trouble following the rules can access and read them in less time, then theres the settings, if a setting/AP is also well written and easy to follow it means the DM who has trouble roleplaying or creating plot/subplot also has improvement... but I dont really believe that a game can prevent all the problems I mentioned above (like I dont imagine that the game will have on page 1 rules for new DM's "remember to wash and use deoderant after cleaning up the gaming area to military standards." 
"The secret we should never let the gamemasters know is that they don't need any rules." Gygax
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 22, 2013 - 8:35AM #54
YagamiFire
Date Joined: Oct 5, 2012
Posts: 1,819

Feb 22, 2013 -- 6:11AM, Baalbamoth wrote:

so back to that side question or maybe I should make a different thread... how can a well designed game reduce or eliminate bad DMing expirences, I've heard a well designed will be more easy to use so that DM's who have trouble following the rules can access and read them in less time, then theres the settings, if a setting/AP is also well written and easy to follow it means the DM who has trouble roleplaying or creating plot/subplot also has improvement... but I dont really believe that a game can prevent all the problems I mentioned above (like I dont imagine that the game will have on page 1 rules for new DM's "remember to wash and use deoderant after cleaning up the gaming area to military standards." 




One of the challenges is that a system of rules that are meant to be broken can never really enforce anything. After all, a bad DM that ignores important rules without considering the consequences is always going to do so. A bad DM that works an agenda into the game and forces it is not going to be stopped by any rules at all.

Now, can rules simplify things? Yes. Has simple ever equated to better? Especially in regards to output? No not really.

In fact, often, more rules don't even help. More rules, instead of being empowering, can become increasingly restrictive. After all, a bad DM will invoke the rules whenever it benefits them just as they will ignore rules whenever they can.

Another major hurdle is the whole mentality that "as long as it's fun it's right" when one is looking at a spectrum in both regards. A game can be fun or it can be MORE FUN just as a DM can DM well or DM BETTER. As long as it's looked at as a binary sort of thing, DMs have an easy excuse of "Well people had fun" therefore they don't need to really change anything do they? If "fun" was achieved, then mission accomplished and improvement/change becomes moot at that point because, again, people are looking at it in a digital fashion instead of analog.

I'm on a journey of enlightenment, learning and self-improvement. A journey towards mastery. A journey that will never end.

If you challenge me, prepare to be challenged.  If you have something to offer as a fellow student, I will accept it. If you call yourself a master, prepare to be humbled. If you seek me, look to the path. I will be traveling it. #SuperDungeonMasterIITurbo

My blog and stuff http://dmingtowin.blogspot.com/
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 22, 2013 - 4:32PM #55
Sir_Joseph_the_Crowe
Date Joined: Jun 20, 2012
Posts: 1,026
Some of the list is true. Some contains kernels of truth. Some is completely wrong. 1 - Meh. Some DM's totally wing it and seem to do fine. 2 - Meh - Some DM's can't wing, but are prepared enough it don't matta as much, but no improv skills is def bad. 3 - true 4 - Using modern slang is out of step with the genre (and jarring), but I don't need a DM to gargle salt water to impress me with his perfect Aquaanese. 5 - If his head is still attached to his shoulders and his heart still has a faint beat, this is inexcusable. Out of game, this DM is a jerk. 6 - I know this to be somewhat true on occasion. On the reverse side of that coin, I've seen some girls who seemed to expect sexism when they came to the table and immediately therefore have a chip on the shoulder. I don't see how being attracted to girls makes for a bad DM. Unless you mean being easily distracted in general makes for a bad DM. 7 - Broad umbrella. Players being asinine doesn't make for a bad DM. He could be the best DM ever, but the player is too busy with the cell phone to enjoy his game. 8 - I prefer a an immediate punch to the face when adult players are being jerks. No sense in bottling it up. Yeah, yeah... legal schmegal. But the players you're talking about sound more like children. Send them to their room if they can't behave or give them time out... I'm not sure on the law on this one.. is it illegal to tell them to pick a switch and wait behind the woodshed thinking about what they've done until you get ready to use it on them? 9 - People pleasers. Yep. DEF Bad DMing. The irony is how much on these forums seems to be dedicated to encouraging it. Even a lot of your list... 10 - I admit.. I once gave a player 500XP because he made me a cup of coffee. He was the lowest level party member and needed this much to gain a level and be on par with the group. I confess! 11 - Yeah. That's bad. If the players think it's an actual contest, you obviously failed at rule number nine. No.... seriously. This IS a bad thing to do. HOWEVER - see rule number 9 when the player sees the game as a contest with the DM. Just say no, man. Just say no. 12 - I'd say this is killer number one of a good game. The no free will part. I'm not talking carte blanche here, I'm talking about a total inability to affect the game, regardless if your character is super monty haul bonus all or pathetic no-no-no. Ironically, in my experience the monty haul DM tends to be the one most likely to smash your free will... and crush your character concept in the process. 13 - Just wanted to point out the caveat "a little of this can be respected". When the DM puts a sign on the dungeon wall that reads "Players... you need to go this way", he has definitely gone too far. See rule 12. 14. It's a talent. I think this is just rule number 2, reworded. 15. You should host the game; sounds like you have a clean house. Basic hygiene should definitely be expected. If someone's hygiene suddenly becomes bad, that's a possible sign of major depression, and is no laughing matter. 16. Hmmm... this would be annoying. Unless I was DM. Because it would be true. But if someone else were DM... I'd think it's real bad. Gamebreaker. No. I don't let the fact that some of my players are politically brainwashed and spiritually void affect my decisions. Nor should you. 17 - I get the part where the DM wants to play in a game where the DM is cool as me. I do. And I actually use a DMPC if the party is small. I don't actually have the radiant gas. Having a DMPC has been more of a tool to fill in blanks making the world a richer experience for the players and increasing my enjoyment in the process. HOWEVER... if you want a player to leave the table... make a DMPC and out-shine the party. 18 - Rule 9 again. Rules lawyer crap. If I don't know the rule what diff? The point is to make a judgment call. The 'rules' - I call them guidelines - are there to help you make a call. Don't make a call so far from the rules that the players don't know what the hell is going on, but make a call. You can check later to see if you were right. Oh wait. You're DM you were. Now let's see if you're good enough to both be right AND keep players at the table. A good DM does both. Players are biased. And the rules were written by people, not lawyers. Sounded worse than I meant it. 19 - This rule is : Be respectful of other people's time. 20 - House rules are fine. But I can see how this could be bad. 21 - Yeah. As a music-lover, I find this particularly annoying. If I like the music, I'm ignoring the game and not really getting to enjoy the music. If I hate the music. I'm really peeved. 22 - I hold people to a low enough standard that I don't have this problem, thankfully. I know they're never gonna get it. Why punish them for it? If you explained the world from the beginning and they don't get it, they're not ignoring you. They really don't understand. :| 23 - Hard to say. I don't want babied, I just want a fair shot. When survival is impossible this goes back to the choo choo train. The DM is guiding the train toward the abyss. 24 - Choo choo. 25 - Choo choo. 26 - Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not after you. 27 - If you earned it, you should get it. If players cheat in my world, I call them on it. Not in the passive agressive way. I tell them it's not poker, buddy. Then I throw them out of my house, because they can't be trusted with a game... watch your china. 28 - Some people like this style. Def not me. But more power to ya if you can stand it. 29 - I have entertainers come in and tell a joke every 10 minutes to the second to do a 5 minute bit to keep them lively. 30. LOL. Hence the post?
A rogue with a bowl of slop can be a controller.

WIZARD PC: Can I substitute Celestial Roc Guano for my fireball spells?
DM: Awesome. Yes.
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 22, 2013 - 5:18PM #56
Noctaem
Date Joined: Mar 28, 2010
Posts: 1,798
wall of text
"Non nobis Domine
Sed nomini tuo da gloriam"

"I wish for death not because I want to die, but because I seek the war eternal"

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3 months ago  ::  Feb 23, 2013 - 1:35AM #57
i_am_baldur
Date Joined: Apr 4, 2010
Posts: 22

Feb 19, 2013 -- 1:44PM, chuck80 wrote:

Feb 19, 2013 -- 1:28PM, strider1276 wrote:

Okay, I have to take slight issue with the "cheer for the right sports franchise" part. Because, honestly, one either cheers for a Pittsburgh team, or they're wrong. 

/levity




Amen, go steelers!




I heard a joke about the Steelers once. You know what's worse than the Steelers? Their fans.

I kid, I kid! :D

But as a Broncos fan, I have to tease.

Today I learned: I can never play with some people on the WotC forums because of a DM rule thread :D 

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3 months ago  ::  Feb 25, 2013 - 1:08AM #58
Madfox11
  • LFR Global Admin
Date Joined: Dec 2, 2005
Posts: 4,440

Feb 21, 2013 -- 7:22AM, Baalbamoth wrote:

Madfox- thats why I shut off the wi-fi, lol jk, but I disagree that having the tech at the table improves the game, if something needs to be looked up online its better for me to go fiat rather than put the game on hold while people search and SRD, if something isnt written down on a character sheet I dont see how having it on the tablet is an improvement or faster than turning a page. na, I prefer luddite gamers.


It is neither better nor worse, although using a tablet does save paper

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