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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 9:15AM
#1
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2010
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Me personally, I think the game is more fun when you start out inexperiened and weak and develop your character and get stronger as you level up, overcoming challanges and dangerous obstacles despite your weaknesses. If your group doesn`t like that, why not start out at a higher level?  So, what do you think? How powerful should a first level and early levels character feel, and is Next doing it "right"?
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 9:20AM
#2
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Date Joined:
Nov 19, 2007
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Since different groups run different kinds of games, I'd rather the "dials" that were spoken of recently be able to handle how powerful a 1st-level PC feels to the group. Starting out at a higher level could rob the group of the joy of learning those initial levels for themselves rather than skipping over them to start at 3rd or 5th or whatever.
In memory of wrecan and his Unearthed Wrecana.5e should strongly stay away from "I don't like it, so you can't have it either."
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 9:28AM
#3
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2006
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Me personally, I think the game is more fun when you start out inexperiened and weak and develop your character and get stronger as you level up, overcoming challanges and dangerous obstacles despite your weaknesses.
If your group doesn`t like that, why not start out at a higher level?
So, what do you think? How powerful should a first level and early levels character feel, and is Next doing it "right"?
Since "power at first level" can, should, and will be a dial for the campaign that modules will address, a much better question is
"How powerful should 1st level characters be for people only first getting introduced to D&D through the core rules of D&DN?"
Now insert 6 pages of
"D&D before 4e has always been about being a weak character for the first several levels, easily slain by a goblin", "Don't make it easy like modern video games", "it's easier to just start at higher level if you don't want an easily killed character at the beginning", and a whole lot of "the introductory core of D&D should play how I want it to play".
Want the tl;dr of my posts? Read the bold text; I put it there to highlight the main points for ease of skimming.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 9:41AM
#4
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Since different groups run different kinds of games, I'd rather the "dials" that were spoken of recently be able to handle how powerful a 1st-level PC feels to the group. Starting out at a higher level could rob the group of the joy of learning those initial levels for themselves rather than skipping over them to start at 3rd or 5th or whatever.
Levels are dials. I get not wanting to rob a group of the experience to understand the more foundational settings of their character, but I don't see any way around it.
A level represents the experience, thus, power level of the character. When the question asks "How powerful should a character feel at early levels?" it is redundent.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 9:50AM
#5
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Mechanically speaking.
I want Level 1 to feel competent.
I want Level 0 to feel inexperienced and out of ones league.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 10:04AM
#6
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Date Joined:
Mar 26, 2004
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The NPC butcher, baker and candlestick maker should absolutely be terrified of a goblin or orc. Should one of them get into a fight with a goblin or orc only a critical hit should save them from death.
First level PCs should be challenged by a goblin or orc. There should be a high probability of death if they try to "John Wayne" it. Care is needed to overcome obstacles posed by the goblin or orc.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 10:16AM
#7
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Date Joined:
Dec 10, 2010
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The NPC butcher, baker and candlestick maker should absolutely be terrified of a goblin or orc. Should one of them get into a fight with a goblin or orc only a critical hit should save them from death.
First level PCs should be challenged by a goblin or orc. There should be a high probability of death if they try to "John Wayne" it. Care is needed to overcome obstacles posed by the goblin or orc.
+1
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 10:26AM
#8
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Date Joined:
Nov 21, 2012
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A level 1 adventurer is a small step away from a commoner working the fields. I refuse to believe that they would get a big amount of hit points just through their initial training in a class when each subsequent level only grants the usual hit die.
The game isn't supposed to be a walk in the park. I'm more worried about new players getting bored with it because they can't immerse themselves in their character than I am of them getting frustrated and quitting, and it seems like the developers are ignoring that possibility. When there is a real danger to your character's life, you care more about them, you use better strategy in battle to avoid injury. Has there ever really been a complaint from new players that the game is too hard? Too hard to learn and play, sure, but too hard to succeed in? That's not the point of the game and they know it.
I agree with those who are saying starting level is the dial for starting difficulty, as well as what challenge rating of encounters the party faces. Game difficulty rests entirely with the DM, no matter what the system is.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 11:18AM
#9
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Date Joined:
Jun 15, 2008
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It's up to the group playing IMO. For a new group where a lot of time is spent just trying to figure out the rules and the consequences of tactics I say the heroes ought to feel powerful. For a veteran group doing a Lair Assault or a tournament a TPK should be a likely outcome. For any casual play different folks have different desires for level of challenge and it's easy enough to tune any of the versions for that.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 11:21AM
#10
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2006
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It's up to the group playing IMO. For a new group where a lot of time is spent just trying to figure out the rules and the consequences of tactics I say the heroes ought to feel powerful.
Finally a post that wasn't exactly what I said would be in this thread.
Want the tl;dr of my posts? Read the bold text; I put it there to highlight the main points for ease of skimming.
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