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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 6:45AM
#21
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Date Joined:
Jan 29, 2005
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IMO, the BEST rules for core would be to drop HP and damage to very low values, representing the number of "hits" you take before you are done. Pretty similar to the board games, although I'd start everyone with a little bit more. Keeping the numbers ridiculously small allows for a much better modular design by allowing HP/damage/healing to be correlated together. They all have to be part of the same module, or the system will fail.
Magic Dual Color Test
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 6:58AM
#22
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Date Joined:
Oct 17, 2007
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Healing can't just be a simple option, it effects too much of the game. If you change the healing system/rate for the party then the party's power level has been massively changed unless HP is adjusted to match. Changing HP effects all kinds of things across the game. Spells that have HP targets become more or less effective, flat healing becomes more or less valuable and so on. It will change which feats are even available. A feat that grants an extra HD per day makes no sense if you don't have HP, a feat that lets you heal more for a nights rest doesn't work without lingering wounds. HP simply effects too much of the game to be an easily swappable module.
That's actually the concern. What is critical to have built in the design a basic scalable health unit. 4E had it as 'Surge', but there are other ways: for instant SW Saga uses the Fortitutde value for a similar end. Upon that the whole healing system can be built and driven.
Now, it is still ok to 'hide' this in the Basic game, for the sake of simplicity. But the system needs to be there underneath. Otherwise it won't work just as a patch slapped on afterwards.
Hopefully that's been taken in account, but so far we've seen no evidence.
Problem is: static healing in a system with scaling hp will inevitably fall short.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 7:01AM
#23
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Mathematical modeling is a useful starting point, but I've found that sitting down and playing is the best way to get a good handle on the correct assumptions, details we've overlooked, and the actual flow of events in the game.
Um yeah, I'd put more stock into this if they showed even the tiniest inkling of how the math behind the game worked. As it is you can play test like this to see if something feels right or fun, but you need to have all of the play testers do this or you may end up making a game that is fun for you, but not fun for the customers. You should use the math modeling to weed out ideas that won't work mathematically, then after that has been done you simulate the math to see if there are any unwanted trends (like huge DPR increases from an extra attack), then hand it to your 80 thousand testers to see if its fun. The math modeling rules things out before wasting hours of time testing to see if its fun.
Our goal has been to remove cleric healing as a necessary element of adventuring. Does that approach make sense given our modular design? I'm starting to think that it doesn't. As a default, we can just embrace the cleric's healing with the understanding that most groups have rolled with that in the past without any real issues.
Wait what? They 'rolled with it' because there was nothing else available. There was always groaning around the table when it came to deciding who would be the heal bot. No one wanted to play the cleric...
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 7:03AM
#24
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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They are making it clear that when modern design and common sense come into conflict with tradition, tradition wins. Excuse me while I go vomit.
You'll still have your option to use "modern" healing techniques, so get over it. It isn't as if the game has actually lost anything.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 7:05AM
#25
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I am fine with nonmagical healing being out of the core and in a module instead, its an option i will use anyway. I believe Overnight Healing should still be there though to let you regain a few HPs.
As for Mike's epic game, you can follow it on his Twitter. Chris Tulach has a few shots too. Awesome set up game look fun! Even without grid...
An overview of the battle. With the necromancer slain, the undead turn against their allies:
See this kind of thing indicates to me that they are playing an entirely different game than the play testers...
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 7:05AM
#26
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Date Joined:
Jun 22, 2010
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He does not have the option to use modern healing mechanics if they are not incorporated in the game. But accepting your premise, if it was included you could easily ignore it.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 7:07AM
#27
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Date Joined:
Aug 22, 2007
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One thing to do to remove pressure on the Cleric is to ensure more classes have healing capabilities early on through magic; ex . the Druid, Ranger, Bard, Paladin etc...
And more off-class healing capabilities like the Herbalism and Healing Initiate Feat that give easier access to Potion of Healing and Cure Minor Wounds.
Good ideas. I hope these are implemented. Those four will need early healing magic.
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The issue I think many are having is what kind of healing, besides resting, will be in the "How To Play" section of the next playtest?
Sounds like none. At least none not in a grey box.
Orzel, Halfelven son of Zel, Mystic Ranger, Bane to Dragons, Death to Undeath, Killer of Abyssals, King of the Wilds.
Constitution Based Class for Next!
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 7:07AM
#28
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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He does not have the option to use modern healing mechanics if they are not incorporated in the game.
Um, it's an optional module, so he has the OPTION to use it. Knowing the definition of "optional" might help you in these discussions.
But accepting your premise, if it was included you could easily ignore it.
As has been pointed out, it's harder to remove something via option than it is to add it.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 7:08AM
#29
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Date Joined:
Jun 26, 2008
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Legends & Lore:
This week in D&D
Mike Mearls
2013 02/18
Our goal has been to remove cleric healing as a necessary element of adventuring. Does that approach make sense given our modular design? I'm starting to think that it doesn't. As a default, we can just embrace the cleric's healing with the understanding that most groups have rolled with that in the past without any real issues. The nice thing about that solution is that it keeps things simple, since the Hit Die mechanic becomes an optional rule for groups to use as they see fit.
We can then also offer other options for DMs, either making healing rarer or more plentiful, along with options for lingering wounds, longer or shorter rates of natural healing, and so on. The real issue, based on playtest data, is that there really is no consensus on the perfect set of rules for healing. Going for the simplest route available to use makes the game more accessible while giving DMs the most latitude to make adjustments.
With this sort of thing, we don't assume that the default rule is the "right" or "correct" choice. With the core game, our aim is to err on the side of simplicity and streamlined, easy to learn rules.
In any case, nothing is set in stone.
Talk about this article here.
Hit dice may have been a bad idea, but healing surges weren't. Funny, if they want the "simplest" rules to be core, then core should be "everyone autoheals to full out of danger". Now I don't think that's a good criteria for handling core healing.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 18, 2013 - 7:11AM
#30
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so great no healing needed from clerics to adventure why not give every pc regeneration 100/second and get it over with. if you are creating a game called dnd that is susposed to make fans of every editon happy then why remove one of the major components of the game for over 30 years it dosent make historical sense at all. you could do a system where you lose stamina points then get into your hit points and im fine with that but seperate them then and that still wouldnt remove a healer from the picture. ill miss you dnd they are ripping you apart and losing pieces each day
Wow, edition war much?
What they have done is allow the Cleric to heal and do something else like cast a spell or make an attack in the same round. That's literally all they've done. Your over the top, phrased to get an emotional response, inflammatory comment is neither accurate nor helpful...
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