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Feb 20, 2013 -- 8:54AM, RadicalTaoist wrote:

Anyways, given that Aeshkrau gives you spell slots in the "lulz" category as you define it and lets you focus on your primary attack modifier instead of your casting modifier, I don't see the point. This isn't a build that casts spells with save DCs - entirely different set of strategies.

Strength is easy enough to boost it doesn't actually require any investment. That is one of the many reasons especially Aeshkrau(I think that's the Str one) is lulz. Strength doesn't even do anything else. It's pretty useless. It'd be much more efficient, especially on a character who uses strength, to have a higher Int score.

Feb 20, 2013 -- 9:26AM, Tempest_Stormwind wrote:

Re: Krau: A couple of its combinations are useful for reducing MAD if you're not using powers with saving throws. The aforementioned A-Game Paladin is a good example of this, because it's not hard to hit the minimum "real" ability score to hit maximum spell levels, because the base spell slots are small (and thus bonus spells make up a bigger proportion of your stamina), and because the class itself suffers from a degree of MAD to begin with (Krau itself also helps with the slower CL progression). The Zero Buff Time Gish is similar, but needs a slightly higher "real" ability score to get the higher level spell slots. (Also, wizard doing gish is sort of like the Wand Overdrive build in that it's a step down in power compared to the base class, while the A-Game Paladin was several steps up from standard, so perhaps this isn't the most apt comparison. But then again, you've admitted that wizards can be disruptive - I concur completely with the don't-be-a-douche sentiment!)

But the problem is, as I've stated earlier, any real investment in strength is inefficient. I especially cannot agree with not having access to 9s without gear. I mean, one Disjunction and this guy goes and cries in a corner, but seriously, it's far too easy to get massive strength. Bite of the Werebear is lol, same with the many other damage and strength-boosting spells, and getting out-of-list fun spells like Giant Size is just . Basically, if you need to really invest in strength, urdoinitwrong.

So, as I've said, it's more efficient to forget the anti-MAD sigils, where the only possible use I can think of would be trying to build a theurge in, like, 16PB.

Re: God wizard: Ah, I see - it's a demand-side solution rather than a supply-side one. I interpreted your original remark as something more like "A god wizard has enough ways to get unlimited stamina that he will laugh in the face of limited spells per day" rather than the more apparent "Each and every spell slot is at least one enemy (and often one entire encounter) down, and we have enough spell slots on that scale".

That's mostly correct, although a properly-equiped focused specialist does pretty much have the supply side covered as well. 

RT: Dayvid wasn't terribly well-equipped, and EA has repeatedly said that WBL optimization is perhaps the single strongest part of the optimization game. I've never seen a comprehensive single "why WBL is win" thread, now that I think about it - could a commoner 20 with full PC WBL be a significant challenge, for instance - even though I've got what I think are the basics down.

I've actually been thinking about putting that kind of thread together, or at least a demonstration of how a full-WBL commoner can laugh at a fighter¹. The only reasons I haven't are a combination of sloth and the fact that I doubt many people here would be terribly interested.

¹Yes, the fighter will be strictly superior, but the fighter has other concerns, like a fancy weapon, that will suck up large amount of WBL. A fully optomized WBL should roflstomp that.

Variant: If UA is in play, get Martial Weapon Proficiency instead of Scribe Scroll from the Martial Wizard ACF - you save one feat.

I like the build but... in my eyes it's just a classic, straightforward Swiftblade build.


As for my favourite among your builds, perhaps the A-Game Paladin. I'd have to go through the list to be sure.

What are Militia and Spelldancer?

Fighter feats won't allow to buy Martial Weapon Proficiency, but allow to buy Dodge and Mobility, so the tip given by Omen isn't totally wrong, here's the new build:

Human – Militia

Level 1 – Wizard 1 (Fighter Feat Variant) – Bonus Feat (Dodge) and Extend Spell
Level 2 – Wizard 2
Level 3 – Wizard 3 – Combat Casting
Level 4 – Wizard 4
Level 5 – Wizard 5 – Bonus Feat (Mobility)
Level 6 – Wizard 6 – Endurance
Level 7 – Swiftblade 1
Level 8 – Swiftblade 2
Level 9 – Swiftblade 3 – Persistent Spell
Level 10 – Spelldancer 1
Level 11 – Swiftblade 4
Level 12 – Swiftblade 5 – Ocular Spell
Level 13 – Swiftblade 6
Level 14 – Swiftblade 7
Level 15 – Swiftblade 8 – Reach Spell
Level 16 – Swiftblade 9
Level 17 – Abjurant Champion 1
Level 18 – Abjurant Champion 2 – Quicken Spell
Level 19 – Abjurant Champion 3
Level 20 – Abjurant Champion 4

Hmm, Sudden Casting says "You can cast haste as a free action once per round, as if augmented by the Quicken Spell metamagic feat" but Quickened Spells are swift actions. Is Swiftblade pre-swift-Quickens? It would seem that Sudden Casting should be swift, in that case (not RAW of course but DM call territory).

The Spelldancer is quite a funny class which I've been meaning to try and make use of. Spelldancing looks pretty infeasible in combat but you could absolutely use if for Persist, a la Incantatrix. It's a bit limited given the whole limited rounds thing but fairly managable, especially if you had Mind Over Body to make the Fort save moot or a way to cure the Con damage. It's also Ref high and gives Evasion at L2, which is nice. It might even work with Cloaked Dancer.

Also, there's Midnight Dodge, because why wouldn't you?

Of course, zero-buff-time becomes a bit moot if you persist spells excessively, especially if one of those is Arcane Spellsurge (swift cast a spell, then full-attack, because you can - it's like a real gish).