Community

 
Dungeons & Dra.. Previous Editions .. Weekly Optimization Showcase: Zero Buff Time Gish
Jump Menu:
Post Reply
Page 1 of 3  •  1 2 3 Next
Switch to Forum Live View Weekly Optimization Showcase: Zero Buff Time Gish
3 months ago  ::  Feb 16, 2013 - 2:22PM #1
RadicalTaoist
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 2,531

As usual for the showcase, these builds are intended to spur discussion and perhaps inspire a few people in the spirit of the old CO boards. They come from members of my gaming group - me, TempestStormwind, DisposableHero_, Andarious, Sionnis, and Seishi - and I'll always identify who wrote the build at the start, so do not assume I'm the guy behind all of them (because I'm not!).

Unless otherwise noted, showcase builds use 28 point-buy, and have their snapshots evaluated using fractional base attack / saves (because it simplifies the math). None of them actually rely on fractional to be built, though. The format I use showcases their progression at key levels rather than just presenting the build and showing off a few tricks at level 20; most of these are capable of being played 1-20 if you so choose. 


With that out of the way, let's get started. This week, one of Andarious’ ideas gets the spotlight (I may have added a few spell and magic item suggestions here and there).


------------------

0 BUFF TIME GISH


Try to keep up!



Required Books: Complete Mage, the Swiftblade online enhancement, Complete Champion, Complete Warrior. Unsurprisingly, the Magic Item and Spell compendiums are useful as hell.
Unearthed Arcana used: None!


Background: Andarious likes his gishes. However, he’s not so big a fan of wasting several rounds at the outset of combat turning into a serious threat; in that time the alpha strikers can end the whole fight. So he whipped up this bad boy to get right to the beating face stage of combat. The Zero Buff Time Gish is fast, hard hitting, versatile, well prepared for nearly anything, and capable of going from 0 to greatsword-in-your-face on round 1.



The Basics

  • Race: Illumian (Aeshkrau).
  •  Ability Scores: 16/14/14/14/8/8. Fighter first, caster second is the order of the day, so Strength gets all the tomes and level ups.

Skill Notes: Andarious’ original skill loadout maxed Concentration, Spellcraft, and Knowledge: Arcana, threw 5 ranks in Jump and 10 in Balance, and still had enough left over for 18 ranks in Tumble and four skill tricks.


Basic Equipment: Aside from your greatsword, spellbook, and spell component pouch? You’re pretty easy to equip. Given how fragile you are at the early levels, items like tanglefoot bags may not go amiss.


Magical Gear Goals: As your only melee investment is a big fat greatsword with the best enhancements you can put on it, your have a lot of free cash to spare. Pearls of Power and Rings of Wizardry are very handy to you. You may want a ring of the Diamond Mind to get Mind Over Body and shore up your weakest save. Oh, and ioun stones, of course.


 



The Build.
Build Stub: Wizard6/Swiftblade9/Abjurant Champion5

1 – Wizard – (Familiar) (Greatsword Proficiency, Scribe Scroll) (Aesh sigil) * Show

Spells to grab: True Strike and Shield 


You start as a wannabe gish, but you can do an okay job of it if you pick on weaker enemies who are unlikely to survive a greatsword hit.


2 – Wizard – (Krau sigil) * Show

Your full runeword comes online now.


3 – Wizard – (Dodge) * Show

Spells to grab: Heroics and Invisibility


Realistically, despite your gish setup, you’re probably still getting more killing power from the spells that f*cking kill people at this level. But it’s nice to be efficient with the melee when mooks show up.


4 – Wizard – * Show

Spells to grab: Protection from Arrows, Rope Trick


5 – Wizard – (Spontaneous Divination) * Show

Spells to grab: Haste, Tongues 


This Complete Champion alternate class feature offers a lot more than it appears. Nothing is worse than casting a buff that doesn’t help you out; the ability to pull divinations out whenever you need them will be a big help later. You will eventually be able to identify ambushes, creatures with special defenses, casters who can dispel, and other gish killing traps in advance and adjust your tactics accordingly.


6 – Wizard – (Mobility) * Show

A dull prereq feat and you’re not allowed to cast anything with your 3rd level slots besides Haste. Ehhhhhh…


7 – Swiftblade – (Swift surge +1/0 ft.) (Spring Attack) * Show

Spells to grab: Heart of Water, Greater Mage Armor


Now that you’re allowed to cast 3rd level spells other than Haste again, time to pick up a better Mage Armor and the poor man’s Freedom of Movement. Spring Attack compensates for our lack of durability; stay safe and out of reach.


8 – Swiftblade – (Blurred alacrity) * Show

Spells to grab: Polymorph, Arcane Eye


9 – Swiftblade – (Sudden casting) (Arcane Strike) * Show

Spells to grab: Dimension Door, Stoneskin


We start living up to the name of the build; our signature spell can be quickened for free now. Arcane Strike gives us a nice damage source to spend our heaps of bonus spells on.


10 – Swiftblade – (Arcane reflexes, swift surge +1/10 ft.) * Show

The loss of a spellcasting progression level sucks, but you will be acting sooner.


11 – Swiftblade – (Evasive celerity) * Show

Spells to grab: Teleport, Telepathic Bond


The miss chance from blurred alacrity maxes out now, at the same time we get another miss chance. Swiftblade helps reduce buffing times as one spell just does so many things for us.


12 – Swiftblade – (Fortified hustle) (Power Attack) * Show

Spells to grab: Improved Blink


We need ability boosters to cast 5th level spells, but you’re level 12; how do you not have them? Protection from dispelling and antimagic is handy at least. With PA, we now have a means to start dealing real damage, fueled by Arcane Strike. This is about the tipping point where you are more gish than caster, so act like it. Get Improved Blink if you don’t have it already; it’s a great defensive buff and it stacks with your miss chance from blurred alacrity. It does NOT stack with your miss chance from evasive celerity, but that hasn’t reached 50% yet, and it doesn’t protect you from area effects or allow you to walk through walls.


13 – Swiftblade – (Swift surge +2/10 ft.) (Bounding Assault) * Show

This is the only level at which you lose a caster level. Given that you now have the ability to give ‘em the ol’ one-two with Bounding Assault, it’s a fair price to pay.


14 – Swiftblade – (Diligent rapidity) * Show

Spells to grab: True Seeing, Mislead 


You no longer need Heart of Water for its FoM effect, but it can still compensate for diligent rapidity’s limitations if you can’t cross that body of water in one round.


15 – Swiftblade – (Perpetual options) (Combat Casting) * Show

Spells to grab: Contingency, Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability


And now we live up to the name. Haste now gives us extra actions that we can cast buffs with while fighting. And by now, you should have two spells that allow you to turn on your buffs as non-actions – not swift actions, non-actions.


16 – Abjurant Champion – (Abjurant armor, extended abjuration) * Show

Spells to grab: Vision, Waves of Exhaustion 


Time for another gish PrC to keep that BAB and HP up. At this point you should have the divinations that will let you get the most use out of your earlier ACF and keep you ahead of your enemies.


17 – Abjurant Champion – (Swift abjuration) * Show

Isn’t it great casting buffs as swift actions so you can buff and fight at the same time?


18 – Abjurant Champion – (Elusive Target) * Show

Spells to grab: Moment of Prescience, Mind Blank


Power Attackers are hard countered by this lovely feat.


19 – Abjurant Champion – (Arcane boost) * Show

The offensive options provided by this class feature don’t offer much compared to Arcane Strike, but the defensive options are quite handy.


20 – Abjurant Champion – (Martial arcanist) * Show

Spells to grab: Shapechange, Foresight 


Woohoo, 9th level spells! If you haven’t got the tomes yet and you don’t like being dependent on Int boosters to cast your highest level spells, grab Wish and provide your own inherent bonuses.


Snapshot: We end up at level 20, assuming +6 ability boosters on Str, Dex, Con, and Int (we don’t have any other major expenditures besides the weapon, so this is not a great demand), packing a +17 BAB (+33 melee attack rolls with a +5 weapon and Haste on, and you know Haste will be on), a caster level of 19 and 17 levels of wizard spellcasting, saves of +11/+14/+14 before cloaks or luckstones or such, 175 hit points, and an AC in the 35 range with buffs up before you grab stuff like rings of protection. On the first round of combat, you can put up Haste as a swift action, trigger a Contingency buff (up to a 6th level spell), have your familiar cast his imbued spell on you, and still have a full round action to full attack, charge, or Bounding Assault. On the second round, you can cast any abjuration buff of your choice as a swift action and keep laying down own. If that’s not enough time for you, I suppose a scroll of Time Stop would be handy…

Overall Strengths: Here we have a gish that makes it happen when it needs to happen, if not sooner. The confluence of good BAB, caster level, and spell access is pretty great for a framework, but your ability to start beating serious face right away is the biggest appeal of this build. Arcane Strike, lots of bonus spell slots, and Power Attack mean you can do a fair amount of damage. You’re mobile as swiftblades are wont to be and hard to hit with all your miss chances. And you can still pack the fixit utility spells when an awkward magical trap or environmental hazard shows up.

Overall Weaknesses: You take a while to get going; you’re a suboptimal wizard for a third of your progression and a lightweight gish for another third. Slightly fragile for a front liner, you’ll be in trouble if someone can drop or pierce your magical defenses. No investment in the save DCs of your spells means that you don’t really have access to many of the spells that end fights (I recommend the no-save Necromancy debuffs, particularly those delivered by rays, to compensate). A reliance on Arcane Strike to fuel Power Attack for serious damage does mean that you will be burning through your considerable spell slots fairly fast. There’s a period in your progression where a good dispel knocking out your Int circlet can cut off your access to high level spells (though you can still Arcane Strike with those slots).



Variants:  A Focused Specialist Transmuter would get considerably more spell slots, at the cost of two schools. Enchantment and Evocation would probably be the schools to drop; you don't do spells that rely on high save DCs, they’re not your thing. If you’re not into Elusive Target, feel free to replace it with another feat, and remember in such a case to switch Dodge with Expeditious Dodge too.

Andarious wanted to add:

if people aren't happy with this build there's another Gish I finished partway through this build which is much more cohesive albeit probably less powerful in melee. One of the nice things about the other gish is that it really only need give up a single caster level, or two if you want a bit more arcane spell failure reduction.


 


 


There you have it. It's nice when things just work. And it's even nicer when they work right now.


 


Next up: We'll let you know. The list of remaining available builds is currently being finalized. That said, we'd be glad to hear what general types of builds you would like. Alternatively, if there were any previous showcases in particular that you really liked, go ahead and tell us "give us another like that" (or if you really didn't like them, I guess a "go back and try that one again" will do too...).

Quick Reply
Cancel
3 months ago  ::  Feb 16, 2013 - 9:42PM #2
frost.fire
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2012
Posts: 274
I really liked the build I really like how andarious designs characters I feel we think along the same lines. I personally love psionic gishes though but that more out of preferance. I really like the build though it does what it says on the box and there is no opening for a dm to argue. Also the power level is probably high t3 or mid t2 its not an unfair game breaker. As for what I would like to see next week, I was thinking of putting a vote for abomidable throwman (air elemental/swordsage comes to mind) or "handy" a build from quite awhile back. It has intrigues me because I don't knwo if he has multiple hands or if he is a handy man. The suspense has been killing me for months. Also would it be viable to switch elusive target for a 3rd swing on spring attack I feel that might be very viable. In finishing I have almost finished a build using your originally posted build "quiet murder" which utilizies a tad more swashbuckler to up the bab and the attacks off a spring attack. Would you be opposed to me adding a flaw to it (only way I can get it to work I think ill double check though) but I figured I'd ask just so I didn't get chastised for using that when the original build didn't need any.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 months ago  ::  Feb 16, 2013 - 10:50PM #3
Andarious-Rosethorn
Date Joined: May 23, 2012
Posts: 411
I build with as simple as possible, I don't include flaws, but often include the "if you're using flaws". I didn't this time, no real idea what exactly I'd do with flaws in the build, tbh. Power Attack wouldn't go amis, for sure.  I'm fairly certain none of us are going to get upset if you modify the builds we post for your own purposes.

The way it works best for you is what matters. The only thing I'd avise against is modifying a build that has feat or feature interactions you don't completey get, because you may be losing certain synergies in choices. As most of these interactions are detailed in the posts, as long as you've read the posts that won't be a problem.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 months ago  ::  Feb 17, 2013 - 8:52AM #4
RadicalTaoist
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 2,531
Yeah, feel free to modify away.

Rapid Blitz will be tough, though. It requires BAB 18 IIRC, and this build doesn't get that pre-epic. You could make that happen by entering with Battle Sorceror instead of Wizard and nabbing it with Heroics, but that's a HUGE loss of casting power (and Spontaneous Divination).
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 months ago  ::  Feb 17, 2013 - 10:02AM #5
frost.fire
Date Joined: Aug 24, 2012
Posts: 274
You're correct I opened my mouth before looking at the pre reqs and all the finer details. I miss counted the bab in my head too which didn't help.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 months ago  ::  Feb 19, 2013 - 1:00AM #6
EruditeApe
Date Joined: Dec 17, 2011
Posts: 1,647
No starting int 18 makes me cry a little inside, as does no Spellsword.

While interesting as a build, the MAD, combined with the lack of Persist and a bunch of other Gish staples, as well as my general distaste for Swiftblade makes me view this as absolutely inferior to a standard Sorcadin. In fact, it really looks a lot like a normal Swiftblade, which seriously hurts it in the style category.

Now, for the next builds, I've always been impressed by your more powerful or complex builds. Wizsassin, Ashardalon, and Psycarnum Warrior are probably my favorites overall, though Gun-Fu was a very nice one as well. I vote for an interesting build that has both power and style. But, hey, that's just me.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls
Resident Secretly Ron Paul
God of Spite and Sloth
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 months ago  ::  Feb 19, 2013 - 7:38AM #7
draco1119
  • California Dragon
Date Joined: Sep 25, 2005
Posts: 12,815
EA, aeshkrau makes it mostly SAD - Strength determines bonus spells, but it still requires high INT to be able to access the spells. Plus it has a racial +1 caster level, which helps make up for the swiftblade. And there's no Spellsword because there's no way to enter the class without fighter/paladin/Duskblade/samurai levels. I looked.
For my vote... I'd like to see something that uses one of YOUR classes - either a martial ranger build or something out of DSP.
"Today's headlines and history's judgment are rarely the same.  If you are too attentive to the former, you will most certainly not do the hard work of securing the latter."  -Condoleezza Rice

"My fellow Americans... I've just signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever.  Bombing begins in five minutes." - Ronald Reagan

This user has been brought to you by the letters "O-R-C" and the numbers "2, 3, 4, and 6"

Resident Pithed-Off Dragon
Buttler of the House of Trolls
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 months ago  ::  Feb 19, 2013 - 7:51AM #8
Andarious-Rosethorn
Date Joined: May 23, 2012
Posts: 411
Oooo... Draco's got a good suggestion... I think there's a good Martial Ranger or two.
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 months ago  ::  Feb 19, 2013 - 10:06AM #9
EruditeApe
Date Joined: Dec 17, 2011
Posts: 1,647
Except that Aeshkrau is horrible. Anyways, Wizard means slots are lulz.
Customer Disservice of the House of Trolls
Resident Secretly Ron Paul
God of Spite and Sloth
Quick Reply
Cancel
3 months ago  ::  Feb 19, 2013 - 12:36PM #10
RadicalTaoist
Date Joined: Aug 17, 2004
Posts: 2,531
I'm curious as to how you reach that conclusion.
Quick Reply
Cancel
Page 1 of 3  •  1 2 3 Next
Jump Menu:
 
Dungeons & Dra.. Previous Editions .. Weekly Optimization Showcase: Zero Buff Time Gish
    Viewing this thread :: 0 registered and 1 guest
    No registered users viewing