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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 2:16PM
#1
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I'm sitting here trying to wrap my head around the idea of the Wizard spellbook. I've never played a Wizard before and by the light it looks like Wizards did everything within ration to make this class feature annoying and confusing.
If I'm understanding right it's BASICALLY a feature that lets you have a mini spell retraining (like you would have when you level up) every time you take an extended rest, but instead of being able to pick from any spell to retrain, you have to pick from one of the two you originally picked for that level slot?
This seems like the most backwards, silly, pointless feature I've ever seen. Especially when you play games (like I do) where you pretty much have no idea what the next adventure will be or what kind of enemies you'll be facing... there's no benefit to being able to pick new dailies like this. I'll always pick the most versatile or most damaging one.
Why did they feel the need to make wizards like this? Is there some benefit I'm missing? At the end of the day, wizards have the same number of usable dailies per day as every other class, right?
EDIT: I guess my basic question is, can someone give me the most simplistic answer possible to how it works, and WHYYYYY did they feel the need to add something this complicated and define it so horribly?
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 2:22PM
#2
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The more I think about this the more it bugs me. I just can't imagine what they were thinking adding this into the game. It comes with:
1) A completely confusing description that hundreds of people have interpreted different ways (as far as I can find)
2) A completely unintuitive system unlike anything else in 4e for you to keep track of
3) An amazing way to clutter up your character sheet, and there's no easy way to keep track of which you have active and which you don't
4) Essentially no useful purpose. The amount of versatility gained from this feature is, as far as I can tell, minimal to the point of being negligible.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 4:02PM
#3
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Date Joined:
Mar 19, 2004
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You ask why? Tradition, that's why. Spellbooks and spell preparation have always been a part of the D&D spellcasting tradition for Wizards. Hence why it looks so "backwards and silly" to you; many of the problems you have with this were present and far more pronounced in older editions.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 4:23PM
#4
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Date Joined:
Apr 29, 2006
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I guess my basic question is, can someone give me the most simplistic answer possible to how it works,
Each time you would normally get a wizard daily or utility, you gain an extra second power of the same type (daily attack power or utility power) and level. That extra spell is basically put in "reserve". It's sitting on your "bench". It's placed in your "deck". It's...some other appropriate "metaphor".
At the end of an extended rest, you can swap a power you are currently using for one that you have in reserve of the same type and level.
Especially when you play games (like I do) where you pretty much have no idea what the next adventure will be or what kind of enemies you'll be facing... there's no benefit to being able to pick new dailies like this. I'll always pick the most versatile or most damaging one.
...
Is there some benefit I'm missing? At the end of the day, wizards have the same number of usable dailies per day as every other class, right?
You are correct in that you still have the number of usable daily and utility powers as every other class.
The main benefit for the wizard is that they get to play around with more powers and potential strategies. If you like experimenting with powers and having lots of options (especially if you have lots of books to draw from), or if you're in a campaign where you do have some insight on what to expect next, it's a nifty feature. Not powerful, but nifty - which is working as intended. And I'm sure there are some enterprising players that can capitalize on the feature.
But, if you find the feature more hassle than its worth, you can, as you've already observed, safely ignore the feature if you prefer. It's not necessary to the function or role of the class.
and WHYYYYY did they feel the need to add something this complicated and define it so horribly?
Why? Because nostalgia.
The 4e's wizard's spellbook feature is mostly a throwback. Pre-4e, the wizard's defining and iconic characteristic was that, each day, they prepared spells from the massive library that was their spellbook.
This wasn't just a feature of the wizard. Book preparation , for many, many players, is the D&D wizard. And without it, the wizard would no long be a wizard. It would be an abomination. A loathsome creature to be hated and shunned.
Unfortunately, the wizard's spellbook-y roots is deeply intertwined with the vancian spellcasting system, which 4e as a whole largely moved away from (for enough reasons to deserve its own thread). So instead, 4e wizards got a feature that still allowed the familiar feeling of preparing your spells each day, but worked more align with mechanical and balance baselines that 4e established.
Because if WotC didn't, people would have complained. Loudly. With their dollars. Simply because "OMG wizards can't prepare spells anymore WTF[ragequit]".
There's more to it than that, of course. But that's the short version without (hopefully) turning this into a long, drawn out, edition-bashing debate.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 4:26PM
#5
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Date Joined:
Aug 19, 2007
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First... Breathe.
Second, lose the hyperbole and stop raging.
Now, this is the history of the wizard's spellbook...
In previous editions, wizards were allowed to cast a certain number of spells per day of each level. They had a long list of spells to choose from and could learn spells from other wizard's book if they found them. This was the defining class feature of the wizard. Eventually, you ended up with wizards who had close to a hundred spells in their books and had to choose between maybe a dozen or so for every level. A wizard with a big selection of spells could, with enough time to prepare, solve any problem in the game. It also usually took the guy playing the wizard five minutes to figure out which spell he wanted to cast every turn.
In 4E, all of the original classes get the same number of class powers every day. The wizard's spellbook is a holdover from the previous editions, which gives them a bit more flexibility without the ridiculousness of past editions. The spellbook feature is an homage to the previous way of doing things and was meant to be a balanced way of helping wizards to remain the "toolbox" characters they were in previous editions. As mentioned, 4E lost a lot of players when they changed from the older way of how wizards were built.
And there will never be a power that is "always the most versatile or damaging one". Pick any character, and no matter what their usual schtick is there will be at least one fairly common situation in-game where their usual strategy is going to be much less useful than whatever backup strategy they can fall back on. As for limited versatility, you get a set of backup powers to switch to when your usual favorites aren't going to be effective - if your favorite spell does fire damage or blinds someone and you're aware that soon you'll be fighting a dragon immune to fire or a creature that's immune to being blinded, you'll be glad for the chance to switch out spells given enough time and knowledge to prepare. No other class in the game gets to change their powers and they're all stuck doing the same thing turn after turn while you get to completely change your attack strategy from day to day if you want. Getting any choice of which status effects you get to impose on your enemies any time outside of character creation and levelling up is a huge benefit.
Side Note: Wizards are meant to be controllers - if you're picking your powers just based on which ones do the most damage, you're not going to be a very effective controller.
Spoiler:
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There are reasons they call me Mad...
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 4:30PM
#6
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Sacred cow more or less. That being said, I fail to see what makes getting an extra free daily or utility power at each appropriate level backwards or even bad in any way shape or form...
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 4:35PM
#7
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Date Joined:
Oct 28, 2010
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Worth noting that most 4e Wizards only ever prep one of each pair of spells that they have available for each given slot and day. Given that, you can basically ignore the spellbook feature, and go ahead and toss out (or not even bother to choose) the cards for the second slots.
Keep hold of the book though; it holds rituals, which ARE actually useful.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 16, 2013 - 6:04PM
#8
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As noted, the spellbook feature is not especially useful unless you have some idea of what monster you will be facing next. If you can only guess, you always select the same one and 2nd, 3rd, or 500th additional choices are pretty useless.
So you need to work with your DM to give you hints, homebrew some ritual, or some other idea.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 17, 2013 - 7:17AM
#9
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As noted, the spellbook feature is not especially useful unless you have some idea of what monster you will be facing next. If you can only guess, you always select the same one and 2nd, 3rd, or 500th additional choices are pretty useless.
So you need to work with your DM to give you hints, homebrew some ritual, or some other idea.
Because, as we all know, wizard is a weak class that needs all the help it can get.
If you ever do play a wizard Rathlord, the only thing it helps with is experimenting. After all, retraining is often limited.
Other than that it's about as useful as your bellybutton.
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4 months ago ::
Feb 17, 2013 - 9:03AM
#10
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I'm sorry, I should have been more clear in the first post: I don't have any problem with the *idea* of the spellbook. But 4e was all about cleaning up and homogenizing the game (for better or for worse) and I just feel like they could have done so many clever things with the spellbook that weren't backwards and painful.
@Mad_Jack I'd appreciate you keeping what I say in context. There IS always a spell you feel will in general be the best and most versatile. That's the one people pick to use when they level their characters. I didn't say "this spell is always the best at everything period," I said "I pick the spell *I feel* will be the best in general." And yes, I'm aware that wizards are controllers. That doesn't mean you don't still pick some of your abilities for their damage dealing capabilities.
Thanks to everyone else for clarifying how it works, I've got it down now. As iterated above I most likely will not swap my powers much. Especially since for flavor and campaign reasons I'm focusing almost only on fire spells (and will be picking feats like Astral Fire to support it) so unless I somehow know I'll be facing a fire-immune foe swapping skills would result in a loss of throughput.
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