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3 months ago ::
Feb 20, 2013 - 2:44PM
#191
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Date Joined:
May 19, 2011
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Instead of going about it the long way with you, I'll just link to the post itself so people can draw their own conclusions. community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
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3 months ago ::
Feb 20, 2013 - 3:10PM
#192
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Date Joined:
Dec 13, 2006
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well yes: it is a very workable game that lots of people enjoyed
That's actualy how I was introduced to D&D, along with anyone who learned to play before 1989 
it is a great introduction to D&D... just not the D&D that YOU like
The D&D that I like is not the point being made.
The point being made is that you cannot expect to attract new players (with their tremendous access to multimedia entertainment, including internet, games, and MMOs) to D&D in the same fashion that was being used a quarter of a century ago. Times have changed, the culture has changed, gaming has changed. If D&D is going to thrive, it needs to be competitive, or go the way of model trains and fade into obscurity. This means it's going to need to innovate. If that innovation takes it in a direction that I don't personally like, but attracts new players, great. I'll play the game I want regardless, but the hobby does nothing but improve with an influx of new players.
You tell people a lot to stop with their edition warring (usualy when they mention something they dislike about 4e), while you seem to be doing a lot of it yourself. Just be careful: Just because you don't like it doesn't mean no one does.
Edition warring goes both ways: you demand that people respect your favorite edition, please do so with other people's favorites editions too.
I don't ask that people respect my favorite edition. I do ask that people at least get their facts straight before they start to complain about something. I ask that people at least tone down the blind hatred and stop ignoring reality before they start making wild accusations and claims. When I complain about a previous edition, it's an edition that I've spent 5 or more years GMing, knowing the ins-and-outs of the system, what worked well for the system and what didn't. It's also an edition that I stopped playing for a good reason.
Complaining that 4e is "just an MMO and the designers are bad and they should feel bad" however, is outright edition warring. The moderators on this forum have said so directly.
Want the tl;dr of my posts? Read the bold text; I put it there to highlight the main points for ease of skimming.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 20, 2013 - 5:41PM
#193
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Retraining already exists. In fact, it needs to exist because players are asked to frequently make choices that will affect them over an extended period. This was, perhaps, never more realized than it was with the 3e fighter. So retraining is fine, it's just the limits of it that need to be set.
Retraining exists, but not at the level I'm talking about. Once it gets there, then the next step is a "switch class" button on the character builder. It'll simply make that 9th level wizard of yours instantly be a barbarian because that's what your party happens to need.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 20, 2013 - 6:44PM
#194
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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How do you determine whether a player coming to you saying "I really wish I had X instead of Y" is a mistake or not?
It's fairly obvious and my players aren't going to try and pull a fast one.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 20, 2013 - 10:53PM
#195
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Retraining already exists. In fact, it needs to exist because players are asked to frequently make choices that will affect them over an extended period. This was, perhaps, never more realized than it was with the 3e fighter. So retraining is fine, it's just the limits of it that need to be set.
Retraining exists, but not at the level I'm talking about. Once it gets there, then the next step is a "switch class" button on the character builder. It'll simply make that 9th level wizard of yours instantly be a barbarian because that's what your party happens to need.
Its called a slipper slope argument... and does not follow.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 20, 2013 - 11:13PM
#196
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Date Joined:
Dec 31, 2007
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How do you determine whether a player coming to you saying "I really wish I had X instead of Y" is a mistake or not?
It's fairly obvious and my players aren't going to try and pull a fast one.
So you are essentially for the currently stated rules where a PC can retrain with permission from the DM. Got it.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 6:18AM
#197
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Date Joined:
Mar 22, 2008
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How do you determine whether a player coming to you saying "I really wish I had X instead of Y" is a mistake or not?
It's fairly obvious and my players aren't going to try and pull a fast one.
So you are essentially for the currently stated rules where a PC can retrain with permission from the DM. Got it.
Read again. I'm not talking about re-training. I'm talking about correcting a mistake. In game the first choice never happened. If a mistake happens, I will allow it to be corrected in most circumstances, but not through re-training.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 4:10PM
#198
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Retraining already exists. In fact, it needs to exist because players are asked to frequently make choices that will affect them over an extended period. This was, perhaps, never more realized than it was with the 3e fighter. So retraining is fine, it's just the limits of it that need to be set.
Retraining exists, but not at the level I'm talking about. Once it gets there, then the next step is a "switch class" button on the character builder. It'll simply make that 9th level wizard of yours instantly be a barbarian because that's what your party happens to need.
Its called a slipper slope argument... and does not follow.
You're right. Anytime anyone anywhere makes a prediction or tries to infer a next step they must lose the argument because it can't be proven. Thank god no one told Columbus that.
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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 5:30PM
#199
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Date Joined:
Jan 15, 2009
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Retraining already exists. In fact, it needs to exist because players are asked to frequently make choices that will affect them over an extended period. This was, perhaps, never more realized than it was with the 3e fighter. So retraining is fine, it's just the limits of it that need to be set.
Retraining exists, but not at the level I'm talking about. Once it gets there, then the next step is a "switch class" button on the character builder. It'll simply make that 9th level wizard of yours instantly be a barbarian because that's what your party happens to need.
Its called a slipper slope argument... and does not follow.
You're right. Anytime anyone anywhere makes a prediction or tries to infer a next step
Thousands of miles away from anything before it your next step is fear mongering...
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3 months ago ::
Feb 21, 2013 - 5:39PM
#200
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Retraining already exists. In fact, it needs to exist because players are asked to frequently make choices that will affect them over an extended period. This was, perhaps, never more realized than it was with the 3e fighter. So retraining is fine, it's just the limits of it that need to be set.
Retraining exists, but not at the level I'm talking about. Once it gets there, then the next step is a "switch class" button on the character builder. It'll simply make that 9th level wizard of yours instantly be a barbarian because that's what your party happens to need.
Its called a slipper slope argument... and does not follow.
You're right. Anytime anyone anywhere makes a prediction or tries to infer a next step
Thousands of miles away from anything before it your next step is fear mongering...
A thousand miles can now be covered in a few hours by plane. And that's the speed I think we're going.
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