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Dungeons & Dra.. D&D Next General D.. Mage Hand, More than Just a Cantrip (Comments?)
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 6:36PM #31
Garthanos
Date Joined: Jan 15, 2009
Posts: 17,789
I have a girl who could even when 6 or so swing a shinai with intimidating verve and gusto

Improvisation in 4e: Improv. Attacks(by wrecan) - Fave 4E Improvisations

The Non-combatant Adventurer

Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness

Dynamic Reflavoring : The Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage
Creative Character Collection - Featuring:The Faerie Master - Snow White - Joxer - Ironman - Elric - Bloodwright

By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one

"You have to explicitly give non-casters permission to do awesome, where as with magic it is just assumed they can." -Garthanos

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 8:04PM #32
ren1999
Date Joined: May 23, 2012
Posts: 601
Mage Hand could even have a shift ability based degree of success. Roll a natural 20 and the target is also pushed 5 feet.

The dagger idea is better suited to Dagger Wall or MagicMissile.

Force here is the speed of the telekinetic power.
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 8:17PM #33
TheLyons
Date Joined: Jan 30, 2012
Posts: 296

Feb 13, 2013 -- 8:04PM, ren1999 wrote:

The dagger idea is better suited to Dagger Wall or MagicMissile. Force here is the speed of the telekinetic power.



I disagree here. There's no reason mage hand shouldn't be able to carry around a dagger and do SOMETHING with it. Even a d4 or d6 attack that scaled up to 4d4 or 4d6 isn't gamebreaking. In fact, it's not even as good as Ray of Frost in damage (1d10 to 4d10), and has half the range, and takes two rounds even to get to that half range!

Also, if the mage hand does damage itself I can see that being force damage. However, if force pushes a dagger, that's piecing and if that force throws a rock, that's bludgeoning.

Is anyone going to amend Mage Hand to be able to attack with a dagger, throw rocks, etc? I think personally at the LEAST a d4 and scale it like the other cantrips in my games. You're going to have to get creative with it to make it a better combat move than ray of frost, for example, but I want to encourage that exact creativity as thats the moments I enjoy most. 

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 8:19PM #34
FallingIcicle
Date Joined: Jun 28, 2006
Posts: 982
I think mage hand should be able to attack. I want to be able to project telekinetic force like Gandalf and Saurumon. I also think the weight limit should scale with level. The damaging cantrips all scale with level, so why not mage hand?
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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 9:12PM #35
xladyfayre
Date Joined: Dec 21, 2012
Posts: 709

Feb 13, 2013 -- 8:19PM, FallingIcicle wrote:

I think mage hand should be able to attack. I want to be able to project telekinetic force like Gandalf and Saurumon. I also think the weight limit should scale with level. The damaging cantrips all scale with level, so why not mage hand?



That's how I feel. I mean I love TV shows like Charmed. Prue was able to telekineticly make someone's tie choke them as well as throw them into walls. Obviously throwing someone into a wall is more than what mage hand should be able to do but throwing a rock or a dagger is creative and is within the range of weight. 

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 10:01PM #36
Rory
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 1,073

Feb 13, 2013 -- 9:12PM, xladyfayre wrote:

Feb 13, 2013 -- 8:19PM, FallingIcicle wrote:

I think mage hand should be able to attack. I want to be able to project telekinetic force like Gandalf and Saurumon. I also think the weight limit should scale with level. The damaging cantrips all scale with level, so why not mage hand?



That's how I feel. I mean I love TV shows like Charmed. Prue was able to telekineticly make someone's tie choke them as well as throw them into walls. Obviously throwing someone into a wall is more than what mage hand should be able to do but throwing a rock or a dagger is creative and is within the range of weight. 




Even if there was a spell like that which there might be there is no reason to use it. The current Wizard isnt designed for duals. Why have a telekinetic wrsetling match when intiatives one spell and Ray of Frost ends every dual in two rounds or less?

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 10:04PM #37
xladyfayre
Date Joined: Dec 21, 2012
Posts: 709

Feb 13, 2013 -- 10:01PM, Rory wrote:

Feb 13, 2013 -- 9:12PM, xladyfayre wrote:

Feb 13, 2013 -- 8:19PM, FallingIcicle wrote:

I think mage hand should be able to attack. I want to be able to project telekinetic force like Gandalf and Saurumon. I also think the weight limit should scale with level. The damaging cantrips all scale with level, so why not mage hand?



That's how I feel. I mean I love TV shows like Charmed. Prue was able to telekineticly make someone's tie choke them as well as throw them into walls. Obviously throwing someone into a wall is more than what mage hand should be able to do but throwing a rock or a dagger is creative and is within the range of weight. 




Even if there was a spell like that which there might be there is no reason to use it. The current Wizard isnt designed for duals. Why have a telekinetic wrsetling match when intiatives one spell and Ray of Frost ends every dual in a two rounds or less?



Because maybe something like a small telekinesis spell could be effective if its created? Personally I never chose to do anything like that since the option was never there. But honestly telekinesis is a power that has interested me since watching Charmed- well even before that with The Secret World of Alex Mack.

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 10:21PM #38
Rory
Date Joined: Jun 24, 2005
Posts: 1,073

Feb 13, 2013 -- 10:04PM, xladyfayre wrote:

Feb 13, 2013 -- 10:01PM, Rory wrote:

Feb 13, 2013 -- 9:12PM, xladyfayre wrote:

Feb 13, 2013 -- 8:19PM, FallingIcicle wrote:

I think mage hand should be able to attack. I want to be able to project telekinetic force like Gandalf and Saurumon. I also think the weight limit should scale with level. The damaging cantrips all scale with level, so why not mage hand?



That's how I feel. I mean I love TV shows like Charmed. Prue was able to telekineticly make someone's tie choke them as well as throw them into walls. Obviously throwing someone into a wall is more than what mage hand should be able to do but throwing a rock or a dagger is creative and is within the range of weight. 




Even if there was a spell like that which there might be there is no reason to use it. The current Wizard isnt designed for duals. Why have a telekinetic wrsetling match when intiatives one spell and Ray of Frost ends every dual in a two rounds or less?



Because maybe something like a small telekinesis spell could be effective if its created? Personally I never chose to do anything like that since the option was never there. But honestly telekinesis is a power that has interested me since watching Charmed- well even before that with The Secret World of Alex Mack.




Do you want a lesser version of Telekenisis to be more effective than a two spell combo that causes kills in two rounds?

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4 months ago  ::  Feb 13, 2013 - 11:57PM #39
ren1999
Date Joined: May 23, 2012
Posts: 601


See my update.
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3 months ago  ::  Feb 16, 2013 - 3:08AM #40
ren1999
Date Joined: May 23, 2012
Posts: 601
Blade Barrier force
abjuration
reaction int vs ac All your attackers take power die damage. You may not attack with other actions while the barrier is up.
Force Orb force
area assault
main + off-hand int vs ac Targets are pelted by objects in an additional radius of 5 feet every 5 levels doing your power die in damage.
Mage Armor force abjuration free static bonus At the beginning of the encounter, your armor class increases by your power die static bonus.
Mage Hand force
utility
off-hand int vs dc10 Move an additional 16kg (sack of potatoes) an additional 5 feet per turn every level-up. Reroll int vs dc 10 every turn to maintain your concentration. As an off-hand action, add your power die in force damage to your main weapon attack.
Pressure Blood force
assault
see details int vs con As an off-hand attack, 1 target is grappled and attacks at disadvantage while being attacked at advantage.
As a main attack, also do power die damage.
Spectral Shift force
assault
see details int vs str As an off-hand attack, shift 1 target an additional 5 feet every 5 levels.
As a main attack, also do power die damage.
Spectral Sling force
assault
main int vs dex 1 target is pelted by objects doing your power die in damage.



Power Die Table
Level Die Or +/-
1-5 1d4 2
6-10 1d6 3
11-15 1d8 4
16-20 1d10 5
21-25 1d12 6
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